Peaceful Transition of Power
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This isn’t about trying to make one side come off better or worse. This is just pointing out the hypocrisy regarding views of the two two transitions, the threat of violence this week is not unprecedented if we see violence on Wednesday it won’t be something brand new, but a result of seeds sewn 4 years ago.
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The number one difference between the right wing criminals from January 6th and the left wing criminals from 17, and earlier this year? The right wing asshats partially succeeded and the left wing asshats didn’t. The left shouldn’t be let off just because they failed. There is no ethical or moral superiority for failure. Their intentions were remarkably similar.
@lufins-dad said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
The number one difference between the right wing criminals from January 6th and the left wing criminals from 17, and earlier this year? The right wing asshats were there as a result of a systematic disinformation campaign led by the President of the United States.
NNTTM
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@lufins-dad said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
The left shouldn’t be let off just because they failed. There is no ethical or moral superiority for failure. Their intentions were remarkably similar.
To me it's weird when unprecedented events like this happen (that is, a violent invasion of the Capitol that delays an electoral process) and the most common topic of conversation isn't "this kind of violence needs to stop everywhere" but "count the hypocrisies."
I don't understand why the latter message is that much more important.
@aqua-letifer One partial reason is because not sufficiently calling out or holding to account leftist riots contributed to the bullshit but we saw January 6th.
It’s helped established the rules of the game so to speak. “Hey, as long as we’re in a big enough crowd, we can do what the fuck ever!”
If this is what it takes for all violent protests to get dealt with correctly...fine.
But I really don’t appreciate having the world*at large nodding in agreement that the one fucking time a bunch of conservatives go ape shit represents us as a whole...While the dozens of such incidents from protesters on the left don’t.
*(Not you specifically...I know you’re brighter than that)
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I’m not really that concerned about the bumbling insurrectionists or the inept CHAZ zone occupiers. (Though that was messed up)
They should both have the book thrown at them.
I was disgusted by the elected local officials that supported CHAZ. (There’s some real idiots here in Seattle)
I’m disgusted by the national elected officials that give cover to this “stop the steal” bullshit.
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I’m not really that concerned about the bumbling insurrectionists or the inept CHAZ zone occupiers. (Though that was messed up)
They should both have the book thrown at them.
I was disgusted by the elected local officials that supported CHAZ. (There’s some real idiots here in Seattle)
I’m disgusted by the national elected officials that give cover to this “stop the steal” bullshit.
@xenon said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
I was disgusted by the elected local officials that supported CHAZ. (There’s some real idiots here in Seattle)
I’m disgusted by the national elected officials that give cover to this “stop the steal” bullshit.I honestly don't know anyone here who would disagree, so I don't understand why we keep pretending like there's this invisible mass who does.
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@lufins-dad said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
a result of seeds sewn 4 years ago.
Your memory is so short:
Link to video@george-k said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
@lufins-dad said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
a result of seeds sewn 4 years ago.
Your memory is so short:
Imagine how interesting it would have been if Bush v. Gore happened in 2004 after Gore's first term.
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@aqua-letifer said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
@lufins-dad said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
The left shouldn’t be let off just because they failed. There is no ethical or moral superiority for failure. Their intentions were remarkably similar.
To me it's weird when unprecedented events like this happen (that is, a violent invasion of the Capitol that delays an electoral process) and the most common topic of conversation isn't "this kind of violence needs to stop everywhere" but "count the hypocrisies."
I don't understand why the latter message is that much more important.
Pretty much most of us on the conservative side immediately condemned ALL political violence, only to be told repeatedly over the last 10 days that you cannot compare the two.
The Brad
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I’m not really that concerned about the bumbling insurrectionists or the inept CHAZ zone occupiers. (Though that was messed up)
They should both have the book thrown at them.
I was disgusted by the elected local officials that supported CHAZ. (There’s some real idiots here in Seattle)
I’m disgusted by the national elected officials that give cover to this “stop the steal” bullshit.
@xenon said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
I’m not really that concerned about the bumbling insurrectionists or the inept CHAZ zone occupiers. (Though that was messed up)
They should both have the book thrown at them.
I was disgusted by the elected local officials that supported CHAZ. (There’s some real idiots here in Seattle)
I’m disgusted by the national elected officials that give cover to this “stop the steal” bullshit.
Agreed.
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@aqua-letifer One partial reason is because not sufficiently calling out or holding to account leftist riots contributed to the bullshit but we saw January 6th.
It’s helped established the rules of the game so to speak. “Hey, as long as we’re in a big enough crowd, we can do what the fuck ever!”
If this is what it takes for all violent protests to get dealt with correctly...fine.
But I really don’t appreciate having the world*at large nodding in agreement that the one fucking time a bunch of conservatives go ape shit represents us as a whole...While the dozens of such incidents from protesters on the left don’t.
*(Not you specifically...I know you’re brighter than that)
@rich said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
@aqua-letifer One partial reason is because not sufficiently calling out or holding to account leftist riots contributed to the bullshit but we saw January 6th.
It’s helped established the rules of the game so to speak. “Hey, as long as we’re in a big enough crowd, we can do what the fuck ever!”
If this is what it takes for all violent protests to get dealt with correctly...fine.
But I really don’t appreciate having the world*at large nodding in agreement that the one fucking time a bunch of conservatives go ape shit represents us as a whole...While the dozens of such incidents from protesters on the left don’t.
*(Not you specifically...I know you’re brighter than that)
Absolutely.
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@aqua-letifer said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
@lufins-dad said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
The left shouldn’t be let off just because they failed. There is no ethical or moral superiority for failure. Their intentions were remarkably similar.
To me it's weird when unprecedented events like this happen (that is, a violent invasion of the Capitol that delays an electoral process) and the most common topic of conversation isn't "this kind of violence needs to stop everywhere" but "count the hypocrisies."
I don't understand why the latter message is that much more important.
Pretty much most of us on the conservative side immediately condemned ALL political violence, only to be told repeatedly over the last 10 days that you cannot compare the two.
@lufins-dad said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
@aqua-letifer said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
@lufins-dad said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
The left shouldn’t be let off just because they failed. There is no ethical or moral superiority for failure. Their intentions were remarkably similar.
To me it's weird when unprecedented events like this happen (that is, a violent invasion of the Capitol that delays an electoral process) and the most common topic of conversation isn't "this kind of violence needs to stop everywhere" but "count the hypocrisies."
I don't understand why the latter message is that much more important.
Pretty much most of us on the conservative side immediately condemned ALL political violence, only to be told repeatedly over the last 10 days that you cannot compare the two.
Well for me, it was a conservative here who told me that.
And that's correct. Only at the most basic level can you even compare the two. But I don't see how that's code for "liberal extremist violence is okay."
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@copper said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
@aqua-letifer said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
@loki said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
@aqua-letifer said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
What in the fuck do you call that? Letting off some steam?
Honestly I call it too familiar language and now we have a perfect opportunity to put it to an end forever.
It is completely intolerable and everyone who does it should pay a high price for it.
That's an extremely good perspective to have.
As opposed to the game of "t3h liberalllls are wooorse!" because that fucking helps everything. At the very least it makes me feel better about my own side and that's what's important. Circle those wagons.
Let's count all the riots in the last 1, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 years - take your pick.
Then let's assign blame to either left or right.
The right has no chance.
Without actually counting, I'd say the ratio is over 50-1, maybe as much as 200-1, just a guess.
The left is way worse.
And you know it.
This exercise would be like comparing the regular flu to the wu-flu.
Right. So the argument is that the “right” has riot and insurrection credits to cash in.
@xenon said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
@copper said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
@aqua-letifer said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
@loki said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
@aqua-letifer said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
What in the fuck do you call that? Letting off some steam?
Honestly I call it too familiar language and now we have a perfect opportunity to put it to an end forever.
It is completely intolerable and everyone who does it should pay a high price for it.
That's an extremely good perspective to have.
As opposed to the game of "t3h liberalllls are wooorse!" because that fucking helps everything. At the very least it makes me feel better about my own side and that's what's important. Circle those wagons.
Let's count all the riots in the last 1, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 years - take your pick.
Then let's assign blame to either left or right.
The right has no chance.
Without actually counting, I'd say the ratio is over 50-1, maybe as much as 200-1, just a guess.
The left is way worse.
And you know it.
This exercise would be like comparing the regular flu to the wu-flu.
Right. So the argument is that the “right” has riot and insurrection credits to cash in.
No, the argument is that the AL argument is very much wrong.
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@lufins-dad said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
The left shouldn’t be let off just because they failed. There is no ethical or moral superiority for failure. Their intentions were remarkably similar.
To me it's weird when unprecedented events like this happen (that is, a violent invasion of the Capitol that delays an electoral process) and the most common topic of conversation isn't "this kind of violence needs to stop everywhere" but "count the hypocrisies."
I don't understand why the latter message is that much more important.
@aqua-letifer said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
@lufins-dad said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
The left shouldn’t be let off just because they failed. There is no ethical or moral superiority for failure. Their intentions were remarkably similar.
To me it's weird when unprecedented events like this happen (that is, a violent invasion of the Capitol that delays an electoral process) and the most common topic of conversation isn't "this kind of violence needs to stop everywhere" but "count the hypocrisies."
I don't understand why the latter message is that much more important.
The message is that, when it comes to violent riots, the left is worse
Much worse
Violent riots are right for neither
But there are two clear sides and the one side has historically been much worse
The story isn't hypocrisy, the story is who has worse behavior
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For me the peaceful transition of power issue has always been a sitting president refusing to accept his loss and vowing never to concede.
@89th said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
For me the peaceful transition of power issue has always been a sitting president refusing to accept his loss and vowing never to concede.
Good point. There are always going to be some people who are mad that "their" side did not win.
But it has not happened (or maybe only a long long time ago) that the in office President was active in trying to change the election.
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@aqua-letifer said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
@lufins-dad said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
The left shouldn’t be let off just because they failed. There is no ethical or moral superiority for failure. Their intentions were remarkably similar.
To me it's weird when unprecedented events like this happen (that is, a violent invasion of the Capitol that delays an electoral process) and the most common topic of conversation isn't "this kind of violence needs to stop everywhere" but "count the hypocrisies."
I don't understand why the latter message is that much more important.
Pretty much most of us on the conservative side immediately condemned ALL political violence, only to be told repeatedly over the last 10 days that you cannot compare the two.
@lufins-dad said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
Pretty much most of us on the conservative side immediately condemned ALL political violence, only to be told repeatedly over the last 10 days that you cannot compare the two.
The reason you’ve been repeatedly told there’s no equivalence is because you’ve repeatedly claimed equivalence as part of a wagon-circling exercise that started within a day or two of the event.
It is true that most of you here expressed only disgust on the day - though there were notable exceptions.
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@lufins-dad said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
Pretty much most of us on the conservative side immediately condemned ALL political violence, only to be told repeatedly over the last 10 days that you cannot compare the two.
The reason you’ve been repeatedly told there’s no equivalence is because you’ve repeatedly claimed equivalence as part of a wagon-circling exercise that started within a day or two of the event.
It is true that most of you here expressed only disgust on the day - though there were notable exceptions.
@jon-nyc said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
@lufins-dad said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
Pretty much most of us on the conservative side immediately condemned ALL political violence, only to be told repeatedly over the last 10 days that you cannot compare the two.
The reason you’ve been repeatedly told there’s no equivalence is because you’ve repeatedly claimed equivalence as part of a wagon-circling exercise that started within a day or two of the event.
It is true that most of you here expressed only disgust on the day - though there were notable exceptions.
What you call wagon-circling, I call perspective.
Perspective is good.
Perspective and wisdom allow us to apply laws evenly and fairly. When that doesn't happen, you have injustice.
Injustice is not good.
Ask MLK.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion.
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Calling it wagon-circling is nonsense. No one I know here has defended the attack on the Capitol nor called for lenience against those involved. What is being called out is the hypocrisy of how the different protestors were treated in the streets, the courts, the press, and by Democrats.
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@jon-nyc said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
@lufins-dad said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
Pretty much most of us on the conservative side immediately condemned ALL political violence, only to be told repeatedly over the last 10 days that you cannot compare the two.
The reason you’ve been repeatedly told there’s no equivalence is because you’ve repeatedly claimed equivalence as part of a wagon-circling exercise that started within a day or two of the event.
It is true that most of you here expressed only disgust on the day - though there were notable exceptions.
What you call wagon-circling, I call perspective.
Perspective is good.
Perspective and wisdom allow us to apply laws evenly and fairly. When that doesn't happen, you have injustice.
Injustice is not good.
Ask MLK.
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Remember all those leftists that started offering “perspective” around 9/12/01?
I found it to be of limited utility myself. Seemed more like apologism to me.
@jon-nyc said in Peaceful Transition of Power:
Remember all those leftists that started offering “perspective” around 9/12/01?
I found it to be of limited utility myself. Seemed more like apologism to me.
Perspective, sir. Perspective.
You're doing your best to sow the seeds of conflict, when conduct and law is not enforced fairly by a society. You want war? Best way I know to grow one...
