Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test
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@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
Is this true? Over here, osteopathy doctors are seen as similar to witch doctors, homeopathy etc. - that is, full of shit.
No, it isn't. At all.
In America, there are no "osteopaths." We have osteopathic physicians, and that distinction is vast. It's not like other countries. Here, osteopathic doctors go through the exact same schooling as MDs. Exact. Except they also have additional hours learning OMT, on top of what MDs have to do. And whatever people think about OMT is immaterial to a DO's credentials. DOs can and do choose any specialty they want, prescribe drugs, perform surgeries, and practice anywhere in the country.
For licensure, DOs have the option to take the USMLE just like MDs, and many do.
Sure, there are differences, but those differences are also blurring with each passing year.
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But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness. Either you believe in evidence-based medicine or not. Ex falso quodlibet. There's no in-between.
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@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
As far as the basic tenets go, you're probably right. However, the education that osteopaths get is virtually identical to that from MD's. None of the osteopaths with whom I've worked have done or expressed anything remotely "witchcrafty." To a (wo)man, they were all good, safe, reasonable docs whom I trusted.
What attracts people to it to begin with? Are the schools easier to get into than med schools?
Yeah. They are, marginally easier to get into. The average GPA of students entering osteopathy schools is a bit lower than those who enter medical schools. I don't know if it's significantly lower (I doubt it), however.
Here's the curriculum of a school in the Chicago area.
The first year's curriculum is pretty classic, with one course per quarter on osteopathic manipulation. Second year is the same.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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Compare to the first year curriculum at the University of Chicago:
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@George-K said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
Yeah. They are, marginally easier to get into. The average GPA of students entering osteopathy schools is a bit lower than those who enter medical schools. I don't know if it's significantly lower (I doubt it), however.
You're looking at MCATs I'm guessin'. While you're right about the numbers, many students very incorrectly believe DO schools are "easier to get into." They ain't. They just weight admissions materials slightly differently.
jon, they're big on primary care, specifically in more rural communities. Students that want to work in those environments often get interested.
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@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness. Either you believe in evidence-based medicine or not. Ex falso quodlibet. There's no in-between.
And, you're wrong about that too. You got your DO degree at Dunning–Kruger University and you should probably stop.
Please love yourself.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness. Either you believe in evidence-based medicine or not. Ex falso quodlibet. There's no in-between.
And, you're wrong about that too. You got your DO degree at Dunning–Kruger University and you should probably stop.
I have no clue what you mean by that.
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@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness. Either you believe in evidence-based medicine or not. Ex falso quodlibet. There's no in-between.
And, you're wrong about that too. You got your DO degree at Dunning–Kruger University and you should probably stop.
I have no clue what you mean by that.
I mean you don't know what you're talking about here, but you seem to think you do. You're disparaging an entire medical field without knowing anything about how it differs.
Please love yourself.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness. Either you believe in evidence-based medicine or not. Ex falso quodlibet. There's no in-between.
And, you're wrong about that too. You got your DO degree at Dunning–Kruger University and you should probably stop.
I have no clue what you mean by that.
I mean you don't know what you're talking about here, but you seem to think you do. You're disparaging an entire medical field without knowing anything about how it differs.
No. Do you need to be an expert in astrology to conclude that it's hogwash?
It's not evidence-based medicine. Not being evidence-based means that there is no evidence that it works, or that there is evidence that it doesn't work. That's really all you need to know about it. It's a book for the "fiction" section, not "non-fiction". The details are irrelevant unless you are interested in fiction stories.
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@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
Do you need to be an expert in astrology to conclude that it's hogwash?
It's not evidence-based medicine.I think the issue is whether DOs practice "osteopathic medicine" or traditional "Western" medicine. My experiences has been that, overwhelmingly, it's the latter. DOs are just like any other doc in the way they practice.
That said, I don't know how much "osteopathy" they practice in their offices, generally speaking. I will say that the OBs, general surgeons, anesthesiologists with whom I worked were very "traditional." My daughter sees a DO as her primary care doc. He's just like any other GP.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@George-K said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
I think the issue is whether DOs practice "osteopathic medicine" or traditional "Western" medicine. My experiences has been that, overwhelmingly, it's the latter. DOs are just like any other doc in the way they practice.
OK, fair enough. I was only talking about osteopathy, not about DOs doing evidence-based medicine.
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@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness. Either you believe in evidence-based medicine or not. Ex falso quodlibet. There's no in-between.
And, you're wrong about that too. You got your DO degree at Dunning–Kruger University and you should probably stop.
I have no clue what you mean by that.
I mean you don't know what you're talking about here, but you seem to think you do. You're disparaging an entire medical field without knowing anything about how it differs.
No. Do you need to be an expert in astrology to conclude that it's hogwash?
It's not evidence-based medicine. Not being evidence-based means that there is no evidence that it works, or that there is evidence that it doesn't work. That's really all you need to know about it. It's a book for the "fiction" section, not "non-fiction". The details are irrelevant unless you are interested in fiction stories.
Klaus you're a smart guy, but I've tried to tell you many times that the term doesn't mean the same in the U.S. as it does in Europe. And now you're just being a bit of an asshole.
You're not getting hung up on the tenets because you don't even know what the fuck they are. You're getting hung up on OMT, which you're going to have to look up to confirm because you don't know what "OMT" means, either. But that's okay, I'll do you work for you since you're clearly too lazy.
In the U.S., OMT was developed and gained traction because doctors were performing surgeries that were, one after another, killing their patients. OMT started to come around because some doctors didn't want to do that. It's pretty fucking evidence-based. Today, it's often taught as yet another tool in the box.
Speaking of osteopathic techniques, no other medical field in the world has developed definitions as rigid and rigorous as American DOs. Not MDs, not dentists, not nurses, nobody. And you know precisely nothing about what this process was, speaking of evidence.
Back to the tenets, which you also know dick about. There's an osteopathic philosophy that's baked into their training, which centers on caring for the whole person, not a particular symptom. If that sounds like silly quackery to you, then I'm very sorry to report that non-DO medical schools around the world are adopting these philosophies more than in the past because they found them so helpful.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
Klaus you're a smart guy, but I've tried to tell you many times that the term doesn't mean the same in the U.S. as it does in Europe. And now you're just being a bit of an asshole.
I was talking about osteopathy the whole time, which I made unambiguously clear. The Wikipedia article on osteopathy starts with the sentence "Osteopathy is a type of alternative medicine". Which means: "not evidence-based". I do understand what the American DO education entails. But that's not what I have addressed.
