Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test
-
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness. Either you believe in evidence-based medicine or not. Ex falso quodlibet. There's no in-between.
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
As far as the basic tenets go, you're probably right. However, the education that osteopaths get is virtually identical to that from MD's. None of the osteopaths with whom I've worked have done or expressed anything remotely "witchcrafty." To a (wo)man, they were all good, safe, reasonable docs whom I trusted.
What attracts people to it to begin with? Are the schools easier to get into than med schools?
Yeah. They are, marginally easier to get into. The average GPA of students entering osteopathy schools is a bit lower than those who enter medical schools. I don't know if it's significantly lower (I doubt it), however.
Here's the curriculum of a school in the Chicago area.
The first year's curriculum is pretty classic, with one course per quarter on osteopathic manipulation. Second year is the same.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
-
Compare to the first year curriculum at the University of Chicago:
-
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
As far as the basic tenets go, you're probably right. However, the education that osteopaths get is virtually identical to that from MD's. None of the osteopaths with whom I've worked have done or expressed anything remotely "witchcrafty." To a (wo)man, they were all good, safe, reasonable docs whom I trusted.
What attracts people to it to begin with? Are the schools easier to get into than med schools?
Yeah. They are, marginally easier to get into. The average GPA of students entering osteopathy schools is a bit lower than those who enter medical schools. I don't know if it's significantly lower (I doubt it), however.
Here's the curriculum of a school in the Chicago area.
The first year's curriculum is pretty classic, with one course per quarter on osteopathic manipulation. Second year is the same.
@George-K said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
Yeah. They are, marginally easier to get into. The average GPA of students entering osteopathy schools is a bit lower than those who enter medical schools. I don't know if it's significantly lower (I doubt it), however.
You're looking at MCATs I'm guessin'. While you're right about the numbers, many students very incorrectly believe DO schools are "easier to get into." They ain't. They just weight admissions materials slightly differently.
jon, they're big on primary care, specifically in more rural communities. Students that want to work in those environments often get interested.
-
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness. Either you believe in evidence-based medicine or not. Ex falso quodlibet. There's no in-between.
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness. Either you believe in evidence-based medicine or not. Ex falso quodlibet. There's no in-between.
And, you're wrong about that too. You got your DO degree at Dunning–Kruger University and you should probably stop.
-
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness. Either you believe in evidence-based medicine or not. Ex falso quodlibet. There's no in-between.
And, you're wrong about that too. You got your DO degree at Dunning–Kruger University and you should probably stop.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness. Either you believe in evidence-based medicine or not. Ex falso quodlibet. There's no in-between.
And, you're wrong about that too. You got your DO degree at Dunning–Kruger University and you should probably stop.
I have no clue what you mean by that.
-
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness. Either you believe in evidence-based medicine or not. Ex falso quodlibet. There's no in-between.
And, you're wrong about that too. You got your DO degree at Dunning–Kruger University and you should probably stop.
I have no clue what you mean by that.
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness. Either you believe in evidence-based medicine or not. Ex falso quodlibet. There's no in-between.
And, you're wrong about that too. You got your DO degree at Dunning–Kruger University and you should probably stop.
I have no clue what you mean by that.
I mean you don't know what you're talking about here, but you seem to think you do. You're disparaging an entire medical field without knowing anything about how it differs.
-
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness. Either you believe in evidence-based medicine or not. Ex falso quodlibet. There's no in-between.
And, you're wrong about that too. You got your DO degree at Dunning–Kruger University and you should probably stop.
I have no clue what you mean by that.
I mean you don't know what you're talking about here, but you seem to think you do. You're disparaging an entire medical field without knowing anything about how it differs.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness. Either you believe in evidence-based medicine or not. Ex falso quodlibet. There's no in-between.
And, you're wrong about that too. You got your DO degree at Dunning–Kruger University and you should probably stop.
I have no clue what you mean by that.
I mean you don't know what you're talking about here, but you seem to think you do. You're disparaging an entire medical field without knowing anything about how it differs.
No. Do you need to be an expert in astrology to conclude that it's hogwash?
It's not evidence-based medicine. Not being evidence-based means that there is no evidence that it works, or that there is evidence that it doesn't work. That's really all you need to know about it. It's a book for the "fiction" section, not "non-fiction". The details are irrelevant unless you are interested in fiction stories.
-
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness. Either you believe in evidence-based medicine or not. Ex falso quodlibet. There's no in-between.
And, you're wrong about that too. You got your DO degree at Dunning–Kruger University and you should probably stop.
I have no clue what you mean by that.
I mean you don't know what you're talking about here, but you seem to think you do. You're disparaging an entire medical field without knowing anything about how it differs.
No. Do you need to be an expert in astrology to conclude that it's hogwash?
It's not evidence-based medicine. Not being evidence-based means that there is no evidence that it works, or that there is evidence that it doesn't work. That's really all you need to know about it. It's a book for the "fiction" section, not "non-fiction". The details are irrelevant unless you are interested in fiction stories.
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
Do you need to be an expert in astrology to conclude that it's hogwash?
It's not evidence-based medicine.I think the issue is whether DOs practice "osteopathic medicine" or traditional "Western" medicine. My experiences has been that, overwhelmingly, it's the latter. DOs are just like any other doc in the way they practice.
That said, I don't know how much "osteopathy" they practice in their offices, generally speaking. I will say that the OBs, general surgeons, anesthesiologists with whom I worked were very "traditional." My daughter sees a DO as her primary care doc. He's just like any other GP.
-
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
Do you need to be an expert in astrology to conclude that it's hogwash?
It's not evidence-based medicine.I think the issue is whether DOs practice "osteopathic medicine" or traditional "Western" medicine. My experiences has been that, overwhelmingly, it's the latter. DOs are just like any other doc in the way they practice.
That said, I don't know how much "osteopathy" they practice in their offices, generally speaking. I will say that the OBs, general surgeons, anesthesiologists with whom I worked were very "traditional." My daughter sees a DO as her primary care doc. He's just like any other GP.
@George-K said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
I think the issue is whether DOs practice "osteopathic medicine" or traditional "Western" medicine. My experiences has been that, overwhelmingly, it's the latter. DOs are just like any other doc in the way they practice.
OK, fair enough. I was only talking about osteopathy, not about DOs doing evidence-based medicine.
-
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness. Either you believe in evidence-based medicine or not. Ex falso quodlibet. There's no in-between.
And, you're wrong about that too. You got your DO degree at Dunning–Kruger University and you should probably stop.
I have no clue what you mean by that.
I mean you don't know what you're talking about here, but you seem to think you do. You're disparaging an entire medical field without knowing anything about how it differs.
No. Do you need to be an expert in astrology to conclude that it's hogwash?
It's not evidence-based medicine. Not being evidence-based means that there is no evidence that it works, or that there is evidence that it doesn't work. That's really all you need to know about it. It's a book for the "fiction" section, not "non-fiction". The details are irrelevant unless you are interested in fiction stories.
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness. Either you believe in evidence-based medicine or not. Ex falso quodlibet. There's no in-between.
And, you're wrong about that too. You got your DO degree at Dunning–Kruger University and you should probably stop.
I have no clue what you mean by that.
I mean you don't know what you're talking about here, but you seem to think you do. You're disparaging an entire medical field without knowing anything about how it differs.
No. Do you need to be an expert in astrology to conclude that it's hogwash?
It's not evidence-based medicine. Not being evidence-based means that there is no evidence that it works, or that there is evidence that it doesn't work. That's really all you need to know about it. It's a book for the "fiction" section, not "non-fiction". The details are irrelevant unless you are interested in fiction stories.
Klaus you're a smart guy, but I've tried to tell you many times that the term doesn't mean the same in the U.S. as it does in Europe. And now you're just being a bit of an asshole.
You're not getting hung up on the tenets because you don't even know what the fuck they are. You're getting hung up on OMT, which you're going to have to look up to confirm because you don't know what "OMT" means, either. But that's okay, I'll do you work for you since you're clearly too lazy.
In the U.S., OMT was developed and gained traction because doctors were performing surgeries that were, one after another, killing their patients. OMT started to come around because some doctors didn't want to do that. It's pretty fucking evidence-based. Today, it's often taught as yet another tool in the box.
Speaking of osteopathic techniques, no other medical field in the world has developed definitions as rigid and rigorous as American DOs. Not MDs, not dentists, not nurses, nobody. And you know precisely nothing about what this process was, speaking of evidence.
Back to the tenets, which you also know dick about. There's an osteopathic philosophy that's baked into their training, which centers on caring for the whole person, not a particular symptom. If that sounds like silly quackery to you, then I'm very sorry to report that non-DO medical schools around the world are adopting these philosophies more than in the past because they found them so helpful.
Please love yourself.
-
Klaus we are all very disappointed in you.
Education is extremely important.
-
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
But osteopathy isn't based on scientific evidence.
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness. Either you believe in evidence-based medicine or not. Ex falso quodlibet. There's no in-between.
And, you're wrong about that too. You got your DO degree at Dunning–Kruger University and you should probably stop.
I have no clue what you mean by that.
I mean you don't know what you're talking about here, but you seem to think you do. You're disparaging an entire medical field without knowing anything about how it differs.
No. Do you need to be an expert in astrology to conclude that it's hogwash?
It's not evidence-based medicine. Not being evidence-based means that there is no evidence that it works, or that there is evidence that it doesn't work. That's really all you need to know about it. It's a book for the "fiction" section, not "non-fiction". The details are irrelevant unless you are interested in fiction stories.
Klaus you're a smart guy, but I've tried to tell you many times that the term doesn't mean the same in the U.S. as it does in Europe. And now you're just being a bit of an asshole.
You're not getting hung up on the tenets because you don't even know what the fuck they are. You're getting hung up on OMT, which you're going to have to look up to confirm because you don't know what "OMT" means, either. But that's okay, I'll do you work for you since you're clearly too lazy.
In the U.S., OMT was developed and gained traction because doctors were performing surgeries that were, one after another, killing their patients. OMT started to come around because some doctors didn't want to do that. It's pretty fucking evidence-based. Today, it's often taught as yet another tool in the box.
Speaking of osteopathic techniques, no other medical field in the world has developed definitions as rigid and rigorous as American DOs. Not MDs, not dentists, not nurses, nobody. And you know precisely nothing about what this process was, speaking of evidence.
Back to the tenets, which you also know dick about. There's an osteopathic philosophy that's baked into their training, which centers on caring for the whole person, not a particular symptom. If that sounds like silly quackery to you, then I'm very sorry to report that non-DO medical schools around the world are adopting these philosophies more than in the past because they found them so helpful.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
Klaus you're a smart guy, but I've tried to tell you many times that the term doesn't mean the same in the U.S. as it does in Europe. And now you're just being a bit of an asshole.
I was talking about osteopathy the whole time, which I made unambiguously clear. The Wikipedia article on osteopathy starts with the sentence "Osteopathy is a type of alternative medicine". Which means: "not evidence-based". I do understand what the American DO education entails. But that's not what I have addressed.
-
In my no-so-educated opinion, a lot of what I read about osteopaths doing OMT for various conditions strikes me as quackery. OMT for otitis media? C'mon, man!
OTOH, there seems to be a crossover between osteopathic treatments and physical therapy. I my series of one, I developed serious cervical foramenal stenosis. I was plagued by pain, numbness and weakness on the ulnar distribution of my left arm. Saw a neurosurgeon who, after looking at the MRI, said I needed PT.
Between exercises and PT, I became symptom free, and I remain that way 18 months later.
So, yeah, there's something to it, but one has to know where the line should be drawn. All the osteopaths I know are aware of that line.
Chiropracters? Not so much.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
-
@Horace said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
Klaus we are all very disappointed in you.
I'm not. At least he's not playing the piano or telling jokes whilst he's Googling all this stuff
-
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
Klaus you're a smart guy, but I've tried to tell you many times that the term doesn't mean the same in the U.S. as it does in Europe. And now you're just being a bit of an asshole.
I was talking about osteopathy the whole time, which I made unambiguously clear. The Wikipedia article on osteopathy starts with the sentence "Osteopathy is a type of alternative medicine". Which means: "not evidence-based". I do understand what the American DO education entails. But that's not what I have addressed.
@Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
Klaus you're a smart guy, but I've tried to tell you many times that the term doesn't mean the same in the U.S. as it does in Europe. And now you're just being a bit of an asshole.
I was talking about osteopathy the whole time, which I made unambiguously clear. The Wikipedia article on osteopathy starts with the sentence "Osteopathy is a type of alternative medicine". Which means: "not evidence-based". I do understand what the American DO education entails. But that's not what I have addressed.
Nice backtrack!
Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness.
No, you were saying DOs were crap doctors because they didn't renounce that part of their training because in your eyes it's quackery.
Please love yourself.
-
In my no-so-educated opinion, a lot of what I read about osteopaths doing OMT for various conditions strikes me as quackery. OMT for otitis media? C'mon, man!
OTOH, there seems to be a crossover between osteopathic treatments and physical therapy. I my series of one, I developed serious cervical foramenal stenosis. I was plagued by pain, numbness and weakness on the ulnar distribution of my left arm. Saw a neurosurgeon who, after looking at the MRI, said I needed PT.
Between exercises and PT, I became symptom free, and I remain that way 18 months later.
So, yeah, there's something to it, but one has to know where the line should be drawn. All the osteopaths I know are aware of that line.
Chiropracters? Not so much.
@George-K said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
In my no-so-educated opinion, a lot of what I read about osteopaths doing OMT for various conditions strikes me as quackery. OMT for otitis media? C'mon, man!
OTOH, there seems to be a crossover between osteopathic treatments and physical therapy. I my series of one, I developed serious cervical foramenal stenosis. I was plagued by pain, numbness and weakness on the ulnar distribution of my left arm. Saw a neurosurgeon who, after looking at the MRI, said I needed PT.
Between exercises and PT, I became symptom free, and I remain that way 18 months later.
So, yeah, there's something to it, but one has to know where the line should be drawn. All the osteopaths I know are aware of that line.
Chiropracters? Not so much.
The last time I spoke to a chiropractor in his office it was at his invitation, so he could offer me an opportunity to invest in some financial products he sells as a side gig.
-
@George-K said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
In my no-so-educated opinion, a lot of what I read about osteopaths doing OMT for various conditions strikes me as quackery. OMT for otitis media? C'mon, man!
OTOH, there seems to be a crossover between osteopathic treatments and physical therapy. I my series of one, I developed serious cervical foramenal stenosis. I was plagued by pain, numbness and weakness on the ulnar distribution of my left arm. Saw a neurosurgeon who, after looking at the MRI, said I needed PT.
Between exercises and PT, I became symptom free, and I remain that way 18 months later.
So, yeah, there's something to it, but one has to know where the line should be drawn. All the osteopaths I know are aware of that line.
Chiropracters? Not so much.
The last time I spoke to a chiropractor in his office it was at his invitation, so he could offer me an opportunity to invest in some financial products he sells as a side gig.
@Horace said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
@George-K said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:
In my no-so-educated opinion, a lot of what I read about osteopaths doing OMT for various conditions strikes me as quackery. OMT for otitis media? C'mon, man!
OTOH, there seems to be a crossover between osteopathic treatments and physical therapy. I my series of one, I developed serious cervical foramenal stenosis. I was plagued by pain, numbness and weakness on the ulnar distribution of my left arm. Saw a neurosurgeon who, after looking at the MRI, said I needed PT.
Between exercises and PT, I became symptom free, and I remain that way 18 months later.
So, yeah, there's something to it, but one has to know where the line should be drawn. All the osteopaths I know are aware of that line.
Chiropracters? Not so much.
The last time I spoke to a chiropractor in his office it was at his invitation, so he could offer me an opportunity to invest in some financial products he sells as a side gig.
That's awesome.
