ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis
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One of the most ridiculous things anybody said was Kash Patel saying he had no right to be armed. Of course he had a right to be armed. But that choice sure did have consequences.
He chose to bring a gun into an intentionally tense situation, where using the gun would be certain suicide. Gun advocates who happen to be sane can judge the situation without being called hypocrites.
@Horace said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
One of the most ridiculous things anybody said was Kash Patel saying he had no right to be armed. Of course he had a right to be armed. But that choice sure did have consequences.
He chose to bring a gun into an intentionally tense situation, where using the gun would be certain suicide. Gun advocates who happen to be sane can judge the situation without being called hypocrites.
They didn't even wait to pry it from his cold, dead hands.
We've had to listen to decades of extreme rhetoric from the right about the God-given right to carry guns, and suddenly we need to temper this with a bit of common sense?
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@Horace said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
One of the most ridiculous things anybody said was Kash Patel saying he had no right to be armed. Of course he had a right to be armed. But that choice sure did have consequences.
He chose to bring a gun into an intentionally tense situation, where using the gun would be certain suicide. Gun advocates who happen to be sane can judge the situation without being called hypocrites.
They didn't even wait to pry it from his cold, dead hands.
We've had to listen to decades of extreme rhetoric from the right about the God-given right to carry guns, and suddenly we need to temper this with a bit of common sense?
We've had to listen to decades of extreme rhetoric from the right about the God-given right to carry guns, and suddenly we need to temper this with a bit of common sense?
I’d be careful if I were you, invocations of God given rights in conjunction with firearms could conjure up a blowhard ghost from the past.
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Forgive my spitballing here, but Kash and Kristi don't really sound that pro-life, either!
They're FUCKING LIBERALS!!!
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Forgive my spitballing here, but Kash and Kristi don't really sound that pro-life, either!
They're FUCKING LIBERALS!!!
But they govern as conservatives.
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Alex Petti kicking out ICE SUV taillight and shouting 1/13. I saw another version of this that showed him being quite belligerent before this video starts.
Link to video -
Alex Petti kicking out ICE SUV taillight and shouting 1/13. I saw another version of this that showed him being quite belligerent before this video starts.
Link to video@Mik said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Alex Petti kicking out ICE SUV taillight and shouting 1/13. I saw another version of this that showed him being quite belligerent before this video starts.
So the ICE and CBP agents who supposedly had "far less time to consider what actions to take" had time to look up what someone that "seems to be Alex Pretti" did on 1/13 and factor that into their decisions within the tens of seconds they encountered and killed Pretti?
What's the logic here?
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I saw that video clip on a BBC Verify clip last night. Pretti ought to have been detained there and then on the spot and turned over to the Minneapolis Police or the FBI. At the very least Public Mischief and Hooliganism charges would have been appropriate. As well, his open carry permit rescinded and firearm confiscated. Responsible law enforcement at that time could have averted last Saturday’s tragedy.
Elbows up!
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@Mik said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Alex Petti kicking out ICE SUV taillight and shouting 1/13. I saw another version of this that showed him being quite belligerent before this video starts.
So the ICE and CBP agents who supposedly had "far less time to consider what actions to take" had time to look up what someone that "seems to be Alex Pretti" did on 1/13 and factor that into their decisions within the tens of seconds they encountered and killed Pretti?
What's the logic here?
@Axtremus said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
@Mik said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Alex Petti kicking out ICE SUV taillight and shouting 1/13. I saw another version of this that showed him being quite belligerent before this video starts.
So the ICE and CBP agents who supposedly had "far less time to consider what actions to take" had time to look up what someone that "seems to be Alex Pretti" did on 1/13 and factor that into their decisions within the tens of seconds they encountered and killed Pretti?
What's the logic here?
Just facts about the sorts of things he actually did. Not only did the border patrol agents who shot him not know about that, it wouldn't even have been admissible in court. But they remain facts about the things he actually did. You can ignore them as you please.
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But the video should inform one's judgement about whether Alex was itching for an opportunity to use his gun on an ICE officer.
There is also the very reasonable possibility that he was hoping to get publicly martyred. The common rabble is eating it up at least as well as he would have hoped.
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I saw that video clip on a BBC Verify clip last night. Pretti ought to have been detained there and then on the spot and turned over to the Minneapolis Police or the FBI. At the very least Public Mischief and Hooliganism charges would have been appropriate. As well, his open carry permit rescinded and firearm confiscated. Responsible law enforcement at that time could have averted last Saturday’s tragedy.
@Renauda said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
I saw that video clip on a BBC Verify clip last night. Pretti ought to have been detained there and then on the spot and turned over to the Minneapolis Police or the FBI. At the very least Public Mischief and Hooliganism charges would have been appropriate. As well, his open carry permit rescinded and firearm confiscated. Responsible law enforcement at that time could have averted last Saturday’s tragedy.
Agreed.
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This is not an excuse for the agency and their actions. What it does speak to is this is a 2 way fucking street, and both parties (and I’m talking the broader sense of the word) share responsibility.
Unfortunately, this is going to result in both sides becoming even more radicalized.
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Nobody here has claimed he's a saint, and pretty much everybody has said he behaved like an idiot. That isn't the point.
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You can psycho-analyze Pretti and his hypothetical motives to engage in obstruction, mischief and hooliganism against ICE until Hell freezes over. Likewise, the irrelevancy of his apparent religious zealotry in opposition to ICE’s mission and tactics. The fact remains that Pretti never used his firearm against ICE troopers in the two documented incidents.
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You can psycho-analyze Pretti and his hypothetical motives to engage in obstruction, mischief and hooliganism against ICE until Hell freezes over. Likewise, the irrelevancy of his apparent religious zealotry in opposition to ICE’s mission and tactics. The fact remains that Pretti never used his firearm against ICE troopers in the two documented incidents.
@Renauda said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
The fact remains that Pretti never used his firearm against ICE troopers in the two documented incidents.
Either there is a right to bear arms that applies to all, or there isn't. We can't have one that just applies to the people we agree with or who don't look a bit shifty.
And the argument that 'Sure, you've got a right to carry, but don't complain or be surprised if it gets you killed' is intellectually bankrupt.
I was only joking
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@Mik said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Speaks to his state of mind regarding ICE operations. Ax is being deliberately obtuse.
The video title says ‘guy who looks like’ pretti.
But let’s say it is - if the individual agents happen to know that, which is a big if, given they sent about 3000 to Minnesota, it might sorta justify why they used pepper spray on him for trying to help a woman shoved onto the ground by a CBP guy. But I’m not sure it gets you to 10 shots in the back.
The whole reason we call them illegal aliens is because they’re subject to our laws.
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@Renauda said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
The fact remains that Pretti never used his firearm against ICE troopers in the two documented incidents.
Either there is a right to bear arms that applies to all, or there isn't. We can't have one that just applies to the people we agree with or who don't look a bit shifty.
And the argument that 'Sure, you've got a right to carry, but don't complain or be surprised if it gets you killed' is intellectually bankrupt.
And the argument that 'Sure, you've got a right to carry, but don't complain or be surprised if it gets you killed' is intellectually bankrupt.
As far as I’m concerned the continued adherence to and argument for a person’s “the right to bear arms” is intellectually bankrupt. It is a bygone from an era when the country was an infant union of individual states on a huge and sparsely populated frontier on a remote continent during the age of black powder muzzleloaders.
It really has no place or real purpose in a post industrial society that is defined by rule of law and established robust institutions of governance.
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@Mik said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Speaks to his state of mind regarding ICE operations. Ax is being deliberately obtuse.
The video title says ‘guy who looks like’ pretti.
But let’s say it is - if the individual agents happen to know that, which is a big if, given they sent about 3000 to Minnesota, it might sorta justify why they used pepper spray on him for trying to help a woman shoved onto the ground by a CBP guy. But I’m not sure it gets you to 10 shots in the back.
@jon-nyc said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
@Mik said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Speaks to his state of mind regarding ICE operations. Ax is being deliberately obtuse.
The video title says ‘guy who looks like’ pretti.
But let’s say it is - if the individual agents happen to know that, which is a big if, given they sent about 3000 to Minnesota, it might sorta justify why they used pepper spray on him for trying to help a woman shoved onto the ground by a CBP guy. But I’m not sure it gets you to 10 shots in the back.
Someone yelling "gun", his ongoing resistance to physical restraint, an ambiguously sourced first shot, and potentially panicked reactions from CPB got him 10 shots in the back.
Education is extremely important.
