ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis
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I saw that video clip on a BBC Verify clip last night. Pretti ought to have been detained there and then on the spot and turned over to the Minneapolis Police or the FBI. At the very least Public Mischief and Hooliganism charges would have been appropriate. As well, his open carry permit rescinded and firearm confiscated. Responsible law enforcement at that time could have averted last Saturday’s tragedy.
Elbows up!
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@Mik said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Alex Petti kicking out ICE SUV taillight and shouting 1/13. I saw another version of this that showed him being quite belligerent before this video starts.
So the ICE and CBP agents who supposedly had "far less time to consider what actions to take" had time to look up what someone that "seems to be Alex Pretti" did on 1/13 and factor that into their decisions within the tens of seconds they encountered and killed Pretti?
What's the logic here?
@Axtremus said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
@Mik said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Alex Petti kicking out ICE SUV taillight and shouting 1/13. I saw another version of this that showed him being quite belligerent before this video starts.
So the ICE and CBP agents who supposedly had "far less time to consider what actions to take" had time to look up what someone that "seems to be Alex Pretti" did on 1/13 and factor that into their decisions within the tens of seconds they encountered and killed Pretti?
What's the logic here?
Just facts about the sorts of things he actually did. Not only did the border patrol agents who shot him not know about that, it wouldn't even have been admissible in court. But they remain facts about the things he actually did. You can ignore them as you please.
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But the video should inform one's judgement about whether Alex was itching for an opportunity to use his gun on an ICE officer.
There is also the very reasonable possibility that he was hoping to get publicly martyred. The common rabble is eating it up at least as well as he would have hoped.
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I saw that video clip on a BBC Verify clip last night. Pretti ought to have been detained there and then on the spot and turned over to the Minneapolis Police or the FBI. At the very least Public Mischief and Hooliganism charges would have been appropriate. As well, his open carry permit rescinded and firearm confiscated. Responsible law enforcement at that time could have averted last Saturday’s tragedy.
@Renauda said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
I saw that video clip on a BBC Verify clip last night. Pretti ought to have been detained there and then on the spot and turned over to the Minneapolis Police or the FBI. At the very least Public Mischief and Hooliganism charges would have been appropriate. As well, his open carry permit rescinded and firearm confiscated. Responsible law enforcement at that time could have averted last Saturday’s tragedy.
Agreed.
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This is not an excuse for the agency and their actions. What it does speak to is this is a 2 way fucking street, and both parties (and I’m talking the broader sense of the word) share responsibility.
Unfortunately, this is going to result in both sides becoming even more radicalized.
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Nobody here has claimed he's a saint, and pretty much everybody has said he behaved like an idiot. That isn't the point.
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You can psycho-analyze Pretti and his hypothetical motives to engage in obstruction, mischief and hooliganism against ICE until Hell freezes over. Likewise, the irrelevancy of his apparent religious zealotry in opposition to ICE’s mission and tactics. The fact remains that Pretti never used his firearm against ICE troopers in the two documented incidents.
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You can psycho-analyze Pretti and his hypothetical motives to engage in obstruction, mischief and hooliganism against ICE until Hell freezes over. Likewise, the irrelevancy of his apparent religious zealotry in opposition to ICE’s mission and tactics. The fact remains that Pretti never used his firearm against ICE troopers in the two documented incidents.
@Renauda said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
The fact remains that Pretti never used his firearm against ICE troopers in the two documented incidents.
Either there is a right to bear arms that applies to all, or there isn't. We can't have one that just applies to the people we agree with or who don't look a bit shifty.
And the argument that 'Sure, you've got a right to carry, but don't complain or be surprised if it gets you killed' is intellectually bankrupt.
I was only joking
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@Mik said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Speaks to his state of mind regarding ICE operations. Ax is being deliberately obtuse.
The video title says ‘guy who looks like’ pretti.
But let’s say it is - if the individual agents happen to know that, which is a big if, given they sent about 3000 to Minnesota, it might sorta justify why they used pepper spray on him for trying to help a woman shoved onto the ground by a CBP guy. But I’m not sure it gets you to 10 shots in the back.
The whole reason we call them illegal aliens is because they’re subject to our laws.
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@Renauda said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
The fact remains that Pretti never used his firearm against ICE troopers in the two documented incidents.
Either there is a right to bear arms that applies to all, or there isn't. We can't have one that just applies to the people we agree with or who don't look a bit shifty.
And the argument that 'Sure, you've got a right to carry, but don't complain or be surprised if it gets you killed' is intellectually bankrupt.
And the argument that 'Sure, you've got a right to carry, but don't complain or be surprised if it gets you killed' is intellectually bankrupt.
As far as I’m concerned the continued adherence to and argument for a person’s “the right to bear arms” is intellectually bankrupt. It is a bygone from an era when the country was an infant union of individual states on a huge and sparsely populated frontier on a remote continent during the age of black powder muzzleloaders.
It really has no place or real purpose in a post industrial society that is defined by rule of law and established robust institutions of governance.
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@Mik said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Speaks to his state of mind regarding ICE operations. Ax is being deliberately obtuse.
The video title says ‘guy who looks like’ pretti.
But let’s say it is - if the individual agents happen to know that, which is a big if, given they sent about 3000 to Minnesota, it might sorta justify why they used pepper spray on him for trying to help a woman shoved onto the ground by a CBP guy. But I’m not sure it gets you to 10 shots in the back.
@jon-nyc said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
@Mik said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Speaks to his state of mind regarding ICE operations. Ax is being deliberately obtuse.
The video title says ‘guy who looks like’ pretti.
But let’s say it is - if the individual agents happen to know that, which is a big if, given they sent about 3000 to Minnesota, it might sorta justify why they used pepper spray on him for trying to help a woman shoved onto the ground by a CBP guy. But I’m not sure it gets you to 10 shots in the back.
Someone yelling "gun", his ongoing resistance to physical restraint, an ambiguously sourced first shot, and potentially panicked reactions from CPB got him 10 shots in the back.
Education is extremely important.
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@Renauda said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
The fact remains that Pretti never used his firearm against ICE troopers in the two documented incidents.
Either there is a right to bear arms that applies to all, or there isn't. We can't have one that just applies to the people we agree with or who don't look a bit shifty.
And the argument that 'Sure, you've got a right to carry, but don't complain or be surprised if it gets you killed' is intellectually bankrupt.
@Doctor-Phibes said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
@Renauda said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
The fact remains that Pretti never used his firearm against ICE troopers in the two documented incidents.
Either there is a right to bear arms that applies to all, or there isn't. We can't have one that just applies to the people we agree with or who don't look a bit shifty.
Other than Kash Patel, can you name someone who's said something like this? Of course you can't.
And the argument that 'Sure, you've got a right to carry, but don't complain or be surprised if it gets you killed' is intellectually bankrupt.
It's simply true that Alex bringing a loaded gun to those ICE agitation sessions has essentially zero positive outcomes. But some negative ones that might serve his purposes. It's an interesting choice.
Education is extremely important.
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@jon-nyc said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
I don’t think there’s any ambiguity about the first shot except which CBP agent fired it.
There has been talk of spontaneously discharging firearm, which Alex had been carrying. i know that sounds ridiculous, but that model of gun apparently does have that issue.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
@Renauda said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
The fact remains that Pretti never used his firearm against ICE troopers in the two documented incidents.
Either there is a right to bear arms that applies to all, or there isn't. We can't have one that just applies to the people we agree with or who don't look a bit shifty.
Other than Kash Patel, can you name someone who's said something like this? Of course you can't.
And the argument that 'Sure, you've got a right to carry, but don't complain or be surprised if it gets you killed' is intellectually bankrupt.
It's simply true that Alex bringing a loaded gun to those ICE agitation sessions has essentially zero positive outcomes. But some negative ones that might serve his purposes. It's an interesting choice.
@Horace said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Other than Kash Patel, can you name someone who's said something like this? Of course you can't.
Trump, Bessent, a high level DoJ guy, at least one Congressman, the director of the FBI. That’s off the top of my head and I’m not paying that close attention.
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@Horace said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Other than Kash Patel, can you name someone who's said something like this? Of course you can't.
Trump, Bessent, a high level DoJ guy, at least one Congressman, the director of the FBI. That’s off the top of my head and I’m not paying that close attention.
@jon-nyc said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
@Horace said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Other than Kash Patel, can you name someone who's said something like this? Of course you can't.
Trump, Bessent, a high level DoJ guy, at least one Congressman, the director of the FBI. That’s off the top of my head and I’m not paying that close attention.
Did they call it stupid or did they invoke the word "right"?
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@jon-nyc said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
They indicated it was on him for having a gun. Sorta the opposite of the 2nd amendment.
The objectively false statement would be that the second amendment does not apply at ICE protests. "On him for having a gun" is just rhetorical blame shifting, which is ubiquitous.
