Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky
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wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 17:25 last edited by
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wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 18:02 last edited by
It seems Trumpigula is becoming madder by the hour.
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wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 18:13 last edited by
I honestly never thought I'd see the day when a US President, and least of all a Republican, would behave like this.
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wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 18:16 last edited by
I can't even sniff a vague scent of hope that maybe Trump will end this war, necessarily on terms that Ukraine agrees to. Nor a recognition that if Harris had been elected, we'd still be on forever war rails, just like it was under Biden.
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wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 18:25 last edited by
Do you have such hope?
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wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 18:31 last edited by
Did you mean to say “not necessarily”?
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I can't even sniff a vague scent of hope that maybe Trump will end this war, necessarily on terms that Ukraine agrees to. Nor a recognition that if Harris had been elected, we'd still be on forever war rails, just like it was under Biden.
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 20:00 last edited by@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
I can't even sniff a vague scent of hope that maybe Trump will end this war, necessarily on terms that Ukraine agrees to. Nor a recognition that if Harris had been elected, we'd still be on forever war rails, just like it was under Biden.
If he can manage it without selling Ukraine down the river, it will be wonderful, however I honestly cannot see how his current behaviour can lead to such an outcome unless he makes a U-turn.
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@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
I can't even sniff a vague scent of hope that maybe Trump will end this war, necessarily on terms that Ukraine agrees to. Nor a recognition that if Harris had been elected, we'd still be on forever war rails, just like it was under Biden.
If he can manage it without selling Ukraine down the river, it will be wonderful, however I honestly cannot see how his current behaviour can lead to such an outcome unless he makes a U-turn.
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 20:26 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes And you were expecting the Biden/Harris strategy to lead to...?
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@Doctor-Phibes And you were expecting the Biden/Harris strategy to lead to...?
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 22:52 last edited by Doctor Phibes@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes And you were expecting the Biden/Harris strategy to lead to...?
I wasn't expecting it to lead to anything, however it seems to me that one person is responsible for this war. Not Biden, not Zelenski, not Harris.
Maybe he's the one who should be held accountable rather than attempting to shift blame like this, and certainly not by appeasement of actual dictators.
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wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:02 last edited by Doctor Phibes
And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?
WTF is wrong with the guy?
Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?
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And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?
WTF is wrong with the guy?
Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:12 last edited bySome people, at least one or two in this forum in fact, cannot conceive that the axiom “it takes two to start a fight” does not always apply or ring true. This war is one such time.
Putin started this war entirely on his own. It was solely born of his own paranoia and imperial ambitions. He will not stop until those are satisfied or he is in his grave. The Russians have a saying “the hunchback is only cured by the grave”. That applies to Putin.
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@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes And you were expecting the Biden/Harris strategy to lead to...?
I wasn't expecting it to lead to anything, however it seems to me that one person is responsible for this war. Not Biden, not Zelenski, not Harris.
Maybe he's the one who should be held accountable rather than attempting to shift blame like this, and certainly not by appeasement of actual dictators.
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:17 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?
WTF is wrong with the guy?
Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?
Since you don't actually have any reasonable hope for any specific conclusion, you're talking about nothing other than your feels about the rhetoric being employed by the players. Meanwhile, there's a forever war going, at least until an inevitable Russian victory. I hear nobody engaging with that point, not even the illustrious Bolton, who admitted the Russians are the inevitable victor in a war of attrition, while also sneering at Trump for potentially "surrendering".
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And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?
WTF is wrong with the guy?
Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:24 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?
WTF is wrong with the guy?
Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?
He's decided to end this war. Zelensky is currently polling below 10% He using that as a hammer to make Ukraine sign off on a peace proposal.
Is that right? Maybe not. Is it effective in ending this war? Perhaps.
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wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:42 last edited by
And what do you pair of brain surgeons suggest if Putin doesn't stop at Ukraine?
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And what do you pair of brain surgeons suggest if Putin doesn't stop at Ukraine?
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:47 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?
WTF is wrong with the guy?
Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?
He's decided to end this war. Zelensky is currently polling below 10% He using that as a hammer to make Ukraine sign off on a peace proposal.
Is that right? Maybe not. Is it effective in ending this war? Perhaps.
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:49 last edited by@Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
He's decided to end this war. Zelensky is currently polling below 10%
Oh for fuck's sake Jolly. You're parroting Russian propoganda.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9814k2jlxko
Official polling is limited and it is extremely difficult to carry out accurate surveys during a time of war. Millions of Ukrainians have fled and Russia has occupied around a fifth of the country.
However, some polling has been possible to carry out by telephone. A survey conducted this month found that 57% of Ukrainians said they trusted the president, according to the Ukraine-based Kyiv International Institute of Sociology.
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@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:55 last edited by Doctor Phibes@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reining in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?
WTF is wrong with the guy?
Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?
He's decided to end this war. Zelensky is currently polling below 10% He using that as a hammer to make Ukraine sign off on a peace proposal.
Is that right? Maybe not. Is it effective in ending this war? Perhaps.
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@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reining in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
wrote on 21 Feb 2025, 00:05 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
