Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky
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@Horace No question, the hysterical anti-Trump screeds are overwhelming. And I’m not implying that you are posting anything hyper partisan. Most of the reactions and analysis that you are posting has been very helpful and even handed. The interviews of Gabbard and Rubio are by necessity partisan, but that doesn’t discount their arguments.
So far, the guy that I tend to listen to a little more than most, Ben Shapiro, hasn’t directly addressed it. I think he’s waiting for Monday. But his XPosts have been filled with a bunch of reposts of some of the more hard core pro-Trump guys attacking Zelenskyy and practically fellating Trump and JD.
Again, personally I believe that both parties are at some fault, here, and I also believe there is some element of true misunderstanding as well as animosity from the past at play. That being said, what really concerns me about this was the sheer amateurish nature of the event. Absolutely everything should have been ironed out and nailed down before they were in front of any cameras and answering questions. The fact that it wasn’t makes it look minor league, or scripted.
@LuFins-Dad said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace No question, the hysterical anti-Trump screeds are overwhelming. And I’m not implying that you are posting anything hyper partisan.
I didn't think you were, I am just genuinely curious where the other side of this both sides are equal argument can actually be heard, beyond fringe internet corners which are never discussed in public but for the opposition making fun of them.
So far, the guy that I tend to listen to a little more than most, Ben Shapiro, hasn’t directly addressed it. I think he’s waiting for Monday. But his XPosts have been filled with a bunch of reposts of some of the more hard core pro-Trump guys attacking Zelenskyy and practically fellating Trump and JD.
I assume the daily wire crew will call Zelensky stupid or suicidal, and they will broach the forbidden topic of what America's true interests are, in keeping Russia from Ukraine. That topic is kept at bay in the public conversation by dismissing as inconceivably heartless, anybody not focused on the morality of the situation. But they won't be beholden to those rules as they talk about it, not in the face of Zelensky's behavior in the oval office.
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You’re just not paying attention. I think if you gave it 40ms of thought you could come up with the argument against appeasing land hungry autocrats even without opening a history book or rereading threads here.
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@Horace No question, the hysterical anti-Trump screeds are overwhelming. And I’m not implying that you are posting anything hyper partisan. Most of the reactions and analysis that you are posting has been very helpful and even handed. The interviews of Gabbard and Rubio are by necessity partisan, but that doesn’t discount their arguments.
So far, the guy that I tend to listen to a little more than most, Ben Shapiro, hasn’t directly addressed it. I think he’s waiting for Monday. But his XPosts have been filled with a bunch of reposts of some of the more hard core pro-Trump guys attacking Zelenskyy and practically fellating Trump and JD.
Again, personally I believe that both parties are at some fault, here, and I also believe there is some element of true misunderstanding as well as animosity from the past at play. That being said, what really concerns me about this was the sheer amateurish nature of the event. Absolutely everything should have been ironed out and nailed down before they were in front of any cameras and answering questions. The fact that it wasn’t makes it look minor league, or scripted.
@LuFins-Dad said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace No question, the hysterical anti-Trump screeds are overwhelming. And I’m not implying that you are posting anything hyper partisan. Most of the reactions and analysis that you are posting has been very helpful and even handed. The interviews of Gabbard and Rubio are by necessity partisan, but that doesn’t discount their arguments.
So far, the guy that I tend to listen to a little more than most, Ben Shapiro, hasn’t directly addressed it. I think he’s waiting for Monday. But his XPosts have been filled with a bunch of reposts of some of the more hard core pro-Trump guys attacking Zelenskyy and practically fellating Trump and JD.
Again, personally I believe that both parties are at some fault, here, and I also believe there is some element of true misunderstanding as well as animosity from the past at play. That being said, what really concerns me about this was the sheer amateurish nature of the event. Absolutely everything should have been ironed out and nailed down before they were in front of any cameras and answering questions. The fact that it wasn’t makes it look minor league, or scripted.
Everything was nailed down. That's been reported. I've even mentioned it.
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They’re certainly happy to see what they saw last week. It really drives their messaging home. To wit, the US is dismantling the world order they created and no longer can be trusted by its traditional allies. Surely that message has been received loud and clear.
@jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
They’re certainly happy to see what they saw last week. It really drives their messaging home. To wit, the US is dismantling the world order they created and no longer can be trusted by its traditional allies. Surely that message has been received loud and clear.
As I said in another thread as a hypothetic, which I hope does not come true.
Currently: President Trump cuts foreign aid, shrinks expenses of government.
Everybody says YAY!! Greatest president ever.50-100 years from now: China (or another country) steps into vacuum created. Starts to "box" US out of world economy. US economy goes into long term decline.
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@jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
They’re certainly happy to see what they saw last week. It really drives their messaging home. To wit, the US is dismantling the world order they created and no longer can be trusted by its traditional allies. Surely that message has been received loud and clear.
As I said in another thread as a hypothetic, which I hope does not come true.
Currently: President Trump cuts foreign aid, shrinks expenses of government.
Everybody says YAY!! Greatest president ever.50-100 years from now: China (or another country) steps into vacuum created. Starts to "box" US out of world economy. US economy goes into long term decline.
@taiwan_girl said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
They’re certainly happy to see what they saw last week. It really drives their messaging home. To wit, the US is dismantling the world order they created and no longer can be trusted by its traditional allies. Surely that message has been received loud and clear.
As I said in another thread as a hypothetic, which I hope does not come true.
Currently: President Trump cuts foreign aid, shrinks expenses of government.
Everybody says YAY!! Greatest president ever.50-100 years from now: China (or another country) steps into vacuum created. Starts to "box" US out of world economy. US economy goes into long term decline.
Let's face some very hard facts. Uncle Sugar is so deep in debt, the debt payment is equal to the world police, er, military budget.
So if you are expecting the U.S. to put water on every blazing conflict in the world, I've got news for you:
John Wayne's dead and the calvary ain't coming.
The U.S. is going to have a leaner, more lethal military, but it cannot afford to project power as it has since WW2. The country will coalesce it's defensive plans into what benefits our nation the most, at the least cost of blood and treasure.
Can China "box" the U.S. in? Not anytime soon, I don't think. I think the U.S. is going to place a lot of emphasis on Japan, India and Australia, but I'm not sure about Taiwan or the Philippines, as they try to keep the Chinese in check.
As for Europe, something I heard that I'm not certain about...If you ranked all European countries individually against Mississippi, Mississippi is worth more. That might be ludicrous, but it underscores that it's a long time since 1945, Europe has rebuilt and they need to take care of themselves.
That's not isolationism, rather it's a return to fiscal responsibility and some international common sense.
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@taiwan_girl said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
They’re certainly happy to see what they saw last week. It really drives their messaging home. To wit, the US is dismantling the world order they created and no longer can be trusted by its traditional allies. Surely that message has been received loud and clear.
As I said in another thread as a hypothetic, which I hope does not come true.
Currently: President Trump cuts foreign aid, shrinks expenses of government.
Everybody says YAY!! Greatest president ever.50-100 years from now: China (or another country) steps into vacuum created. Starts to "box" US out of world economy. US economy goes into long term decline.
Let's face some very hard facts. Uncle Sugar is so deep in debt, the debt payment is equal to the world police, er, military budget.
So if you are expecting the U.S. to put water on every blazing conflict in the world, I've got news for you:
John Wayne's dead and the calvary ain't coming.
The U.S. is going to have a leaner, more lethal military, but it cannot afford to project power as it has since WW2. The country will coalesce it's defensive plans into what benefits our nation the most, at the least cost of blood and treasure.
Can China "box" the U.S. in? Not anytime soon, I don't think. I think the U.S. is going to place a lot of emphasis on Japan, India and Australia, but I'm not sure about Taiwan or the Philippines, as they try to keep the Chinese in check.
As for Europe, something I heard that I'm not certain about...If you ranked all European countries individually against Mississippi, Mississippi is worth more. That might be ludicrous, but it underscores that it's a long time since 1945, Europe has rebuilt and they need to take care of themselves.
That's not isolationism, rather it's a return to fiscal responsibility and some international common sense.
@Jolly What you say may be right, and if it is, I think that the consequence of that will be a lessened US power and influence throughout the world.
Personally, I dont think that is for the better. It will hurt in economics, diplomatic, trade, etc.
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@jon-nyc Great. Then it remains very odd how quiet the opposition was to the status quo under Biden, where Russia was slowly consuming Ukraine.
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@jon-nyc Great. Then it remains very odd how quiet the opposition was to the status quo under Biden, where Russia was slowly consuming Ukraine.
They control less Ukrainian land now than they did 3 years ago.
But there were plenty of complaints about Biden’s strategy if you knew where to look. Kasparov was a rather loud and consistent voice.
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@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@jon-nyc Great. Then it remains very odd how quiet the opposition was to the status quo under Biden, where Russia was slowly consuming Ukraine.
They control less Ukrainian land now than they did 3 years ago.
But there were plenty of complaints about Biden’s strategy if you knew where to look. Kasparov was a rather loud and consistent voice.
@jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@jon-nyc Great. Then it remains very odd how quiet the opposition was to the status quo under Biden, where Russia was slowly consuming Ukraine.
They control less Ukrainian land now than they did 3 years ago.
Interesting. Cite? How do you square that with the commonly accepted notion that Ukraine is losing the war, and will ultimately lose unless something changes?
But there were plenty of complaints about Biden’s strategy if you knew where to look. Kasparov was a rather loud and consistent voice.
Obviously, I'm talking about the public discussion in America.
Education is extremely important.
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@jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@jon-nyc Great. Then it remains very odd how quiet the opposition was to the status quo under Biden, where Russia was slowly consuming Ukraine.
They control less Ukrainian land now than they did 3 years ago.
Interesting. Cite? How do you square that with the commonly accepted notion that Ukraine is losing the war, and will ultimately lose unless something changes?
But there were plenty of complaints about Biden’s strategy if you knew where to look. Kasparov was a rather loud and consistent voice.
Obviously, I'm talking about the public discussion in America.
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@jon-nyc Great. Then it remains very odd how quiet the opposition was to the status quo under Biden, where Russia was slowly consuming Ukraine.
They control less Ukrainian land now than they did 3 years ago.
Interesting. Cite?
Russia controlled the most Ukrainian territory in the current war around March 2022, shortly after the full-scale invasion began on February 24, 2022. At its peak, Russian forces occupied approximately 22% of Ukraine, including:
• Nearly all of Luhansk and Donetsk (beyond pre-2022 positions).
• Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions, including Kherson city.
• Northern Ukraine, including areas near Kyiv, Chernihiv, and Sumy (which they withdrew from in April 2022).Since then, Ukraine has regained significant territory, especially through counteroffensives in Kharkiv (September 2022) and Kherson (November 2022). Today, Russia still occupies parts of eastern and southern Ukraine, but its territorial control is significantly reduced from its early-war peak.
“Don’t make me repeat myself”
- history
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So there is no squaring with the commonly accepted notion that Ukraine is losing the war, and the claim, while technically true, is a rhetorical cheap trick. Russia happened to occupy a bunch of territory in an undefended blitz at the start, from which they were pushed back, and into which they continue to encroach slowly.
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@jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
He’s in America with a decent social media platform.
Sigh. You are completely shameless. I guess that's a gift.
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
He’s in America with a decent social media platform.
Sigh. You are completely shameless. I guess that's a gift.
He’s a public intellectual and gets interviewed a lot. Just because he hasn’t been on Rogan or Petersons podcast doesn’t mean he’s not part of the conversation. Maybe you need to add some non-magats to your twitter feed or some non-wokes to your Bluesky.
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@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
He’s in America with a decent social media platform.
Sigh. You are completely shameless. I guess that's a gift.
He’s a public intellectual and gets interviewed a lot. Just because he hasn’t been on Rogan or Petersons podcast doesn’t mean he’s not part of the conversation. Maybe you need to add some non-magats to your twitter feed or some non-wokes to your Bluesky.
@jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
He’s in America with a decent social media platform.
Sigh. You are completely shameless. I guess that's a gift.
He’s a public intellectual and gets interviewed a lot. Just because he hasn’t been on Rogan or Petersons podcast doesn’t mean he’s not part of the conversation. Maybe you need to add some non-magats to your twitter feed or some non-wokes to your Bluesky.
No, this is not a failure of the breadth of my info feeds. This is a failure of your good faith reading of my point. You are eager to dunk as always, so you took my claims about how relatively quiet the opposition was to the Biden status quo, as a claim that there was no opposition at all. Because jon's gotta dunk. It's bad faith, and more tedious than you'll ever know.
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@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@jon-nyc Great. Then it remains very odd how quiet the opposition was to the status quo under Biden, where Russia was slowly consuming Ukraine.
They control less Ukrainian land now than they did 3 years ago.
Interesting. Cite?
Russia controlled the most Ukrainian territory in the current war around March 2022, shortly after the full-scale invasion began on February 24, 2022. At its peak, Russian forces occupied approximately 22% of Ukraine, including:
• Nearly all of Luhansk and Donetsk (beyond pre-2022 positions).
• Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions, including Kherson city.
• Northern Ukraine, including areas near Kyiv, Chernihiv, and Sumy (which they withdrew from in April 2022).Since then, Ukraine has regained significant territory, especially through counteroffensives in Kharkiv (September 2022) and Kherson (November 2022). Today, Russia still occupies parts of eastern and southern Ukraine, but its territorial control is significantly reduced from its early-war peak.
@jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@jon-nyc Great. Then it remains very odd how quiet the opposition was to the status quo under Biden, where Russia was slowly consuming Ukraine.
They control less Ukrainian land now than they did 3 years ago.
Interesting. Cite?
Russia controlled the most Ukrainian territory in the current war around March 2022, shortly after the full-scale invasion began on February 24, 2022. At its peak, Russian forces occupied approximately 22% of Ukraine, including:
• Nearly all of Luhansk and Donetsk (beyond pre-2022 positions).
• Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions, including Kherson city.
• Northern Ukraine, including areas near Kyiv, Chernihiv, and Sumy (which they withdrew from in April 2022).Since then, Ukraine has regained significant territory, especially through counteroffensives in Kharkiv (September 2022) and Kherson (November 2022). Today, Russia still occupies parts of eastern and southern Ukraine, but its territorial control is significantly reduced from its early-war peak.
How do the battle lines compare with the 2015/16 borders?
