Helicopter Crash in DC
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If you have any type of safety event while flying you are encouraged to file an ASRS report with NASA. I have filed a number of these reports.
In order to encourage pilots to file these reports, they are anonymous.
Here is one from just a few days before the crash, it sounds familiar:
Events
Anomaly.ATC Issue : All Types
Anomaly.Conflict : NMAC
Detector.Automation : Aircraft RA
When Detected : In-flight
Result.Flight Crew : Took Evasive ActionNarrative: 1
While we were flying the river visual to Runway 19 into DCA we received a TCAS alert. We were around SETOC or just past it and fully configured to land. There was, what I could only guess as I never saw it, a helicopter about 300ft below us. The TCAS showed it climbing but at a very very slow rate as it never showed closer than 300ft to us. When we flew over top of it, we got a “monitor vertical speed alert from TCAS which we then pitched into the green arc on the VSI which was -300fpm or greater. After we received the “clear of conflict” the FO corrected and got back on glide path. I assessed that we were still within stable approach criteria and we continued the approach and landed in DCA without further issue. We never received a warning of the traffic from ATC so we were unaware it was there. Suggestion: Need to have better separation for DCA traffic on the river visual to the helicopter traffic that is flying up and down the river. Maybe by timing the separation of when we began the approach to where that traffic will be when we cross overhead.
Synopsis
Air carrier Captain reported a NMAC with a helicopter while on visual approach. Flight crew responded to the TCAS alert and continued the approach.
If you want to search the ASRS database you can go here:
https://akama.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSDBOnline/QueryWizard_Filter.aspx
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I am thinking that due to the airspace restrictions around DC and the military flights, one part of the answer is going to need to be ATC oversight even on visual approaches. Which also means more staffing.
I also think commercial traffic can and should be reduced at DCA. Sorry, @89th . On the plus side, I’m sure that your company’s next contract will require full time in-office, so you won’t be flying in quite as often.
The Brad
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If you have any type of safety event while flying you are encouraged to file an ASRS report with NASA. I have filed a number of these reports.
In order to encourage pilots to file these reports, they are anonymous.
Here is one from just a few days before the crash, it sounds familiar:
Events
Anomaly.ATC Issue : All Types
Anomaly.Conflict : NMAC
Detector.Automation : Aircraft RA
When Detected : In-flight
Result.Flight Crew : Took Evasive ActionNarrative: 1
While we were flying the river visual to Runway 19 into DCA we received a TCAS alert. We were around SETOC or just past it and fully configured to land. There was, what I could only guess as I never saw it, a helicopter about 300ft below us. The TCAS showed it climbing but at a very very slow rate as it never showed closer than 300ft to us. When we flew over top of it, we got a “monitor vertical speed alert from TCAS which we then pitched into the green arc on the VSI which was -300fpm or greater. After we received the “clear of conflict” the FO corrected and got back on glide path. I assessed that we were still within stable approach criteria and we continued the approach and landed in DCA without further issue. We never received a warning of the traffic from ATC so we were unaware it was there. Suggestion: Need to have better separation for DCA traffic on the river visual to the helicopter traffic that is flying up and down the river. Maybe by timing the separation of when we began the approach to where that traffic will be when we cross overhead.
Synopsis
Air carrier Captain reported a NMAC with a helicopter while on visual approach. Flight crew responded to the TCAS alert and continued the approach.
If you want to search the ASRS database you can go here:
https://akama.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSDBOnline/QueryWizard_Filter.aspx
@Copper said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
If you have any type of safety event while flying you are encouraged to file an ASRS report with NASA. I have filed a number of these reports.
In order to encourage pilots to file these reports, they are anonymous.
Here is one from just a few days before the crash, it sounds familiar:
Events
Anomaly.ATC Issue : All Types
Anomaly.Conflict : NMAC
Detector.Automation : Aircraft RA
When Detected : In-flight
Result.Flight Crew : Took Evasive ActionNarrative: 1
While we were flying the river visual to Runway 19 into DCA we received a TCAS alert. We were around SETOC or just past it and fully configured to land. There was, what I could only guess as I never saw it, a helicopter about 300ft below us. The TCAS showed it climbing but at a very very slow rate as it never showed closer than 300ft to us. When we flew over top of it, we got a “monitor vertical speed alert from TCAS which we then pitched into the green arc on the VSI which was -300fpm or greater. After we received the “clear of conflict” the FO corrected and got back on glide path. I assessed that we were still within stable approach criteria and we continued the approach and landed in DCA without further issue. We never received a warning of the traffic from ATC so we were unaware it was there. Suggestion: Need to have better separation for DCA traffic on the river visual to the helicopter traffic that is flying up and down the river. Maybe by timing the separation of when we began the approach to where that traffic will be when we cross overhead.
Synopsis
Air carrier Captain reported a NMAC with a helicopter while on visual approach. Flight crew responded to the TCAS alert and continued the approach.
If you want to search the ASRS database you can go here:
https://akama.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSDBOnline/QueryWizard_Filter.aspx
Doesn't such a report immediately start an investigation and possible action for remedy? This sounds like complacency and indifference at the very least, contributing to what ultimately happened.
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I am thinking that due to the airspace restrictions around DC and the military flights, one part of the answer is going to need to be ATC oversight even on visual approaches. Which also means more staffing.
I also think commercial traffic can and should be reduced at DCA. Sorry, @89th . On the plus side, I’m sure that your company’s next contract will require full time in-office, so you won’t be flying in quite as often.
@LuFins-Dad said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
I am thinking that due to the airspace restrictions around DC and the military flights, one part of the answer is going to need to be ATC oversight even on visual approaches. Which also means more staffing.
I also think commercial traffic can and should be reduced at DCA. Sorry, @89th . On the plus side, I’m sure that your company’s next contract will require full time in-office, so you won’t be flying in quite as often.
Haha maybe. If that happens I’ll switch to another company that allows remote work. I’m in a fortunate spot where there’s more demand than supply for my specific job and clearance level so there’s always an open spot to fill somewhere.
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The army is not releasing the name of one of the three occupants of the heli, at the request of the family. Interesting the family has that much power over what might be considered public information. I gather the unnamed one is the pilot.
Link to video -
The army is not releasing the name of one of the three occupants of the heli, at the request of the family. Interesting the family has that much power over what might be considered public information. I gather the unnamed one is the pilot.
Link to video@Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
The army is not releasing the name of one of the three occupants of the heli, at the request of the family. Interesting the family has that much power over what might be considered public information. I gather the unnamed one is the pilot.
Link to videoSince we know that it was a female, that tracks.
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I am struggling to not make a misogynistic joke, here.
She seems qualified, but it also seems like most of her work has been more social at the WH in recent weeks. It looks (from the outside) like this is a soldier that did a lot of flying earlier in her career, but has been more of a politico/military ambassador at the WH in recent years, and this was a flight to just make sure that her certifications stayed active.
Still, to this completely unqualified observer, it still feels like a communications failure in a very tough situation from the Tower. And as much as you might hate to admit it, based on all of the lawsuits, DEI hiring practices have played a part, and yes, that includes from 2017-2021
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There were 6 people who could have prevented the collision.
ATC, 2 jet pilots, 2 helicopter pilots and the helicopter observer.
Communications failure may turn out to be an understatement.
Again, it is still early in the investigation, there could have been some problem we don't know about yet.
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Okay, I’ll say it… She just freaking needed to parallel park…
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Always makes me pause just a tad more once you put real faces and names to the victims. I haven’t read the details, was she actually flying? The voice who said they have visual separation from the CRJ was male.
There are some good examples on YouTube of what the helicopter and plane pilots actually saw, which is to say both had blinds spots (more for the plane) at the angles they hit, it really seems as simple as the helo was looking at the wrong jet. And I’d imagine this will result in much stricter helicopter path restrictions as well as stricter standards from the tower other than “see that plane? Yeah go behind it”, which has worked for decades…until it didn’t.
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Always makes me pause just a tad more once you put real faces and names to the victims. I haven’t read the details, was she actually flying? The voice who said they have visual separation from the CRJ was male.
There are some good examples on YouTube of what the helicopter and plane pilots actually saw, which is to say both had blinds spots (more for the plane) at the angles they hit, it really seems as simple as the helo was looking at the wrong jet. And I’d imagine this will result in much stricter helicopter path restrictions as well as stricter standards from the tower other than “see that plane? Yeah go behind it”, which has worked for decades…until it didn’t.
@89th said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
Always makes me pause just a tad more once you put real faces and names to the victims. I haven’t read the details, was she actually flying? The voice who said they have visual separation from the CRJ was male.
There are some good examples on YouTube of what the helicopter and plane pilots actually saw, which is to say both had blinds spots (more for the plane) at the angles they hit, it really seems as simple as the helo was looking at the wrong jet. And I’d imagine this will result in much stricter helicopter path restrictions as well as stricter standards from the tower other than “see that plane? Yeah go behind it”, which has worked for decades…until it didn’t.
It would have been the crew chief on the radio, not the pilot.
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She had 500 hours flight time according to this guy. He considers that very low for that type of flying in that corridor at night.
Link to video -
@kluurs said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
There were 3 pilots, but do we know who was in the lead seat at the time?
We know it was a training flight. We know that she was the trainee. We know that a lot of emphasis and blame was being put on whoever had the stick of the helicopter, and we know the family had requested her name not be revealed at first. There were reports for the past 2 days that it was a woman at the controls….
And also, I’m not sure, but I don’t believe that helicopters have duplicated controls like a plane. I think there’s only 1 set, which would make it extremely unlikely that she wouldn’t be piloting the craft.
That being said, I don’t think any one person has the preponderance of the blame, here.
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Virginia transgender National Guard pilot falsely targeted
‘Proof of life’ video posted after fatal DC-area crashBy Stuart A. Thompson The New York Times
Jo Ellis, a helicopter pilot in the Virginia Army National Guard, was falsely identified as the captain of the crashed Black Hawk helicopter in thousands of social media posts last week. The flurry of falsehoods were so extreme that Ellis, who is transgender, posted a “proof of life” video to Facebook clarifying that she is alive and had not flown the crashed chopper.
