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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Cheap AI LLMs from China

Cheap AI LLMs from China

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  • taiwan_girlT Offline
    taiwan_girlT Offline
    taiwan_girl
    wrote on last edited by
    #2

    I think that the Chinese models are much more censored than the Western ones.

    Ask Deepseek about Taiwan for example.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • jon-nycJ Offline
      jon-nycJ Offline
      jon-nyc
      wrote on last edited by
      #3

      I went to deepseek with the intention of asking “Has China apologized to the world for unleashing Covid and killing so many innocent people?’

      But I balked when I had to give my email and/or phone number to the CCP.

      Only non-witches get due process.

      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
      AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

        I went to deepseek with the intention of asking “Has China apologized to the world for unleashing Covid and killing so many innocent people?’

        But I balked when I had to give my email and/or phone number to the CCP.

        AxtremusA Away
        AxtremusA Away
        Axtremus
        wrote on last edited by
        #4

        @jon-nyc said in Cheap AI LLMs from China:

        But I balked when I had to give my email and/or phone number to the CCP.

        The model underlying DeepSeek is supposedly open sourced. So if there isn't one already, there will be a service somewhere that uses the underlying model that is not operated by a CCP-affiliated party.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nyc
          wrote on last edited by
          #5

          Only non-witches get due process.

          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
          LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

            LuFins DadL Offline
            LuFins DadL Offline
            LuFins Dad
            wrote on last edited by
            #6

            @jon-nyc said in Cheap AI LLMs from China:

            Tweet is missing already?

            The Brad

            1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nyc
              wrote on last edited by
              #7

              Only non-witches get due process.

              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
              1 Reply Last reply
              • jon-nycJ Offline
                jon-nycJ Offline
                jon-nyc
                wrote on last edited by
                #8

                He had replied to his own tweet saying his account was disactivated. Maybe he just fat fingered the password.

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                1 Reply Last reply
                • George KG Offline
                  George KG Offline
                  George K
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #9

                  image.png

                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • HoraceH Offline
                    HoraceH Offline
                    Horace
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #10

                    This has hammered AI names in the stock market today. I don't quite understand why. NVDA for instance is down 13%. Maybe there is anticipation that we will no longer allow sales of chips to china.

                    Education is extremely important.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #11

                      I think we already don’t.

                      Only non-witches get due process.

                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • 89th8 Offline
                        89th8 Offline
                        89th
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #12

                        I am terribly surprised China has built a cheaper knock off of a tech product.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • HoraceH Offline
                          HoraceH Offline
                          Horace
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #13

                          I guess the theory behind the stock crash is that this will lessen the need for investment into AI going forward, if there exist super cheap alternatives.

                          Education is extremely important.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • 89th8 Offline
                            89th8 Offline
                            89th
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #14

                            I'm not an expert, but didn't the smart investment folks already see this coming?

                            HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                            • 89th8 89th

                              I'm not an expert, but didn't the smart investment folks already see this coming?

                              HoraceH Offline
                              HoraceH Offline
                              Horace
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #15

                              @89th The market as a whole was certainly surprised, given the massive movement today. As for individual investors, I don't attempt to distinguish the smart from the stupid, and individual results don't often bear out any such distinction. You can call Buffett smart, or Jim Simons. But I don't think there's a community of "smart" investors who all think similarly, unless you want to call the "diversify and rebalance" crowd that. Anyway, anybody who got in on NVDA at the start of the AI craze is still up many-many-fold. Hard to call them ignorant.

                              Education is extremely important.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • 89th8 Offline
                                89th8 Offline
                                89th
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #16

                                Well my investments in JOBY and ACHR will eventually prove to be genius in like 20 years. Just watch. eVTOLs baby... electric autonomous air taxi services FTW

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • KlausK Online
                                  KlausK Online
                                  Klaus
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #17

                                  I asked about Tianamen square, and of course the answer was "I can't say anything".

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • jon-nycJ Offline
                                    jon-nycJ Offline
                                    jon-nyc
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #18

                                    Ask if China has apologized officially for unleashing COVID on the world and killing millions of innocent people.

                                    Only non-witches get due process.

                                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • HoraceH Offline
                                      HoraceH Offline
                                      Horace
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #19

                                      Today may represent a buying opportunity?


                                      Intel's (NASDAQ:INTC) former CEO Pat Gelsinger called out the market for overreacting to the news of China's DeepSeek artificial intelligence model.

                                      AI stocks collapsed across the board on Monday as DeepSeek's chatbot rose to the top of the most downloaded app on Apple's (AAPL) App Store.

                                      However, Gelsinger pointed out that if DeepSeek proves that large language models can be created with less computing power, it stands to reason AI will grow even more.

                                      "Wisdom is learning the lessons we thought we already knew," Gelsinger said in a post on X. "DeepSeek reminds us of three important learnings from computing history: 1) Computing obeys the gas law. Making it dramatically cheaper will expand the market for it. The markets are getting it wrong, this will make AI much more broadly deployed. 2) Engineering is about constraints. The Chinese engineers had limited resources, and they had to find creative solutions. 3) Open Wins. DeepSeek will help reset the increasingly closed world of foundational AI model work. Thank you DeepSeek team."

                                      DeepSeek reportedly developed its LLM at a fraction of the cost and compute power of competitors.

                                      "The model was developed by the Chinese AI startup DeepSeek, which claims that R1 matches or even surpasses OpenAI's ChatGPT o1 on multiple key benchmarks but operates at a fraction of the cost," according to a report by the MIT Technology Review.

                                      Nvidia (NASDAQ:NVDA) shares tanked 17% by afternoon trading, while Broadcom (NASDAQ:AVGO) plummeted 19%. Microsoft (NASDAQ:MSFT), which is a primary backer of OpenAI, slipped 2.5%.

                                      However, after reaching the No. 1 ranking in App Store downloads, DeepSeek quickly limited availability of its software, citing hackers as the reason.

                                      "Due to large-scale malicious attacks on DeepSeek's services, we are temporarily limiting registrations to ensure continued service," DeepSeek said. "Existing users can log in as usual. Thanks for your understanding and support."

                                      Education is extremely important.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • George KG Offline
                                        George KG Offline
                                        George K
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #20

                                        In case it goes away - a screenshot:

                                        Screenshot 2025-01-27 at 1.58.15 PM.png

                                        ToS:

                                        image.jpeg

                                        image.jpeg

                                        It's like TikTok, but blatant about it.

                                        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • George KG Offline
                                          George KG Offline
                                          George K
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #21

                                          image.png

                                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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