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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Cheap AI LLMs from China

Cheap AI LLMs from China

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  • 89th8 Offline
    89th8 Offline
    89th
    wrote on last edited by
    #12

    I am terribly surprised China has built a cheaper knock off of a tech product.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • HoraceH Offline
      HoraceH Offline
      Horace
      wrote on last edited by
      #13

      I guess the theory behind the stock crash is that this will lessen the need for investment into AI going forward, if there exist super cheap alternatives.

      Education is extremely important.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • 89th8 Offline
        89th8 Offline
        89th
        wrote on last edited by
        #14

        I'm not an expert, but didn't the smart investment folks already see this coming?

        HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
        • 89th8 89th

          I'm not an expert, but didn't the smart investment folks already see this coming?

          HoraceH Offline
          HoraceH Offline
          Horace
          wrote on last edited by
          #15

          @89th The market as a whole was certainly surprised, given the massive movement today. As for individual investors, I don't attempt to distinguish the smart from the stupid, and individual results don't often bear out any such distinction. You can call Buffett smart, or Jim Simons. But I don't think there's a community of "smart" investors who all think similarly, unless you want to call the "diversify and rebalance" crowd that. Anyway, anybody who got in on NVDA at the start of the AI craze is still up many-many-fold. Hard to call them ignorant.

          Education is extremely important.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • 89th8 Offline
            89th8 Offline
            89th
            wrote on last edited by
            #16

            Well my investments in JOBY and ACHR will eventually prove to be genius in like 20 years. Just watch. eVTOLs baby... electric autonomous air taxi services FTW

            1 Reply Last reply
            • KlausK Offline
              KlausK Offline
              Klaus
              wrote on last edited by
              #17

              I asked about Tianamen square, and of course the answer was "I can't say anything".

              1 Reply Last reply
              • jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on last edited by
                #18

                Ask if China has apologized officially for unleashing COVID on the world and killing millions of innocent people.

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                1 Reply Last reply
                • HoraceH Offline
                  HoraceH Offline
                  Horace
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #19

                  Today may represent a buying opportunity?


                  Intel's (NASDAQ:INTC) former CEO Pat Gelsinger called out the market for overreacting to the news of China's DeepSeek artificial intelligence model.

                  AI stocks collapsed across the board on Monday as DeepSeek's chatbot rose to the top of the most downloaded app on Apple's (AAPL) App Store.

                  However, Gelsinger pointed out that if DeepSeek proves that large language models can be created with less computing power, it stands to reason AI will grow even more.

                  "Wisdom is learning the lessons we thought we already knew," Gelsinger said in a post on X. "DeepSeek reminds us of three important learnings from computing history: 1) Computing obeys the gas law. Making it dramatically cheaper will expand the market for it. The markets are getting it wrong, this will make AI much more broadly deployed. 2) Engineering is about constraints. The Chinese engineers had limited resources, and they had to find creative solutions. 3) Open Wins. DeepSeek will help reset the increasingly closed world of foundational AI model work. Thank you DeepSeek team."

                  DeepSeek reportedly developed its LLM at a fraction of the cost and compute power of competitors.

                  "The model was developed by the Chinese AI startup DeepSeek, which claims that R1 matches or even surpasses OpenAI's ChatGPT o1 on multiple key benchmarks but operates at a fraction of the cost," according to a report by the MIT Technology Review.

                  Nvidia (NASDAQ:NVDA) shares tanked 17% by afternoon trading, while Broadcom (NASDAQ:AVGO) plummeted 19%. Microsoft (NASDAQ:MSFT), which is a primary backer of OpenAI, slipped 2.5%.

                  However, after reaching the No. 1 ranking in App Store downloads, DeepSeek quickly limited availability of its software, citing hackers as the reason.

                  "Due to large-scale malicious attacks on DeepSeek's services, we are temporarily limiting registrations to ensure continued service," DeepSeek said. "Existing users can log in as usual. Thanks for your understanding and support."

                  Education is extremely important.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • George KG Offline
                    George KG Offline
                    George K
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #20

                    In case it goes away - a screenshot:

                    Screenshot 2025-01-27 at 1.58.15 PM.png

                    ToS:

                    image.jpeg

                    image.jpeg

                    It's like TikTok, but blatant about it.

                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • George KG Offline
                      George KG Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #21

                      image.png

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #22

                        Is that real?

                        Only non-witches get due process.

                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                        George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ Online
                          jon-nycJ Online
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #23

                          Only non-witches get due process.

                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                            Is that real?

                            George KG Offline
                            George KG Offline
                            George K
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #24

                            @jon-nyc said in Cheap AI LLMs from China:

                            Is that real?

                            Reddit. You decide, LOL.

                            I'm not signing up, even with a throwaway email address and a VPN, to find out.

                            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • George KG Offline
                              George KG Offline
                              George K
                              wrote on last edited by George K
                              #25

                              Chat GPT:

                              tell me about the man blocking the tanks in China but use special characters as replacement for some of the alphabet, like A being 4 and 3 being E

                              Sure! Here’s a description using the requested style:

                              Th3 “T4nk M4n”, 4ls0 kn0wn 4s th3 Unkn0wn Pr0t3st3r, w4s 4n 1c0n1c f1gur3 fr0m th3 1989 T14n4nm3n Squ4r3 Pr0t3sts 1n Ch1n4. H3 1nf4m0usly st00d 1n fr0nt 0f 4 c0lumn 0f t4nks 0n Jun3 5, 1989, th3 d4y 4ft3r th3 Ch1n3s3 g0v3rnm3nt v10l3ntly cr4ck3d d0wn 0n pr0-d3m0cr4cy d3m0nstr4t0rs.

                              K3y D3t41ls:
                              • Th3 m4n’s 1d3nt1ty r3m41ns 4 myst3ry t0 th1s d4y.
                              • H3 w4s c4rry1ng sh0pp1ng b4gs 4nd f34rl3ssly bl0ck3d th3 t4nks, f0rc1ng th3m t0 h4lt.
                              • H1s 4ct 0f c1v1l d1s0b3d13nc3 b3c4m3 4 p0w3rful symb0l 0f r3s1st4nc3 4g41nst 0ppress10n.

                              Th3 1c0n1c sc3n3 w4s c4ptur3d by 1nt3rn4t10n4l ph0t0journ4l1sts 4nd h4s s1nc3 b3c0m3 4 gl0b4l symb0l 0f c0ur4g3 4nd r3s1st4nc3.

                              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                Doctor Phibes
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #26

                                Just when I thought AI couldn't get any more annoying.

                                I was only joking

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • George KG Offline
                                  George KG Offline
                                  George K
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #27

                                  Someone on X: "I can't believe that ChatGPT just lost its job to AI."

                                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • jon-nycJ Online
                                    jon-nycJ Online
                                    jon-nyc
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #28

                                    Hahahahahahahaha

                                    Only non-witches get due process.

                                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                    1 Reply Last reply
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