Liz Cheney Warns
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If the Jan 6 hearings had served their investigatory purpose, we'd all have a clear idea that it was an unruly mob rather than a planned attempt to overthrow our government. But since that was an inadmissible conclusion, all we got out of the hearings was a notion that deadly insurrection bad, and as deadly insurrections go, this was definitely a bad one. What questions were they trying to answer, in particular, when they began the investigation, and did they answer them? I recall everybody being really curious as to whether there was a mastermind, or any document detailing the plan, but somehow that question lost prominence when the answers became a clear no, to the investigators.
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If the Jan 6 hearings had served their investigatory purpose, we'd all have a clear idea that it was an unruly mob rather than a planned attempt to overthrow our government. But since that was an inadmissible conclusion, all we got out of the hearings was a notion that deadly insurrection bad, and as deadly insurrections go, this was definitely a bad one. What questions were they trying to answer, in particular, when they began the investigation, and did they answer them? I recall everybody being really curious as to whether there was a mastermind, or any document detailing the plan, but somehow that question lost prominence when the answers became a clear no, to the investigators.
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You can look up the full report here, but just as they showed summary videos of what happened that day, I don't expect anyone will open this link and read through the thousands of pages.
Here is a summary of what was found by the committee.
Now, whether you or I or anyone else agree or disagree or condemn or simply wish the committee was run in a different matter... ask yourselves this: Prior to the committee, when we just had youtube highlights, and people on both sides claiming different narratives, resulting in a very muddy picture for the historical record... isn't it important to have a mostly-complete investigation and recreation of all of the events, statements, actions prior, during, and after the Capitol attack so that there is at least a chance of history having a clear record of what happened? In that light, I say the committee was very much was worthwhile.
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You can look up the full report here, but just as they showed summary videos of what happened that day, I don't expect anyone will open this link and read through the thousands of pages.
Here is a summary of what was found by the committee.
Now, whether you or I or anyone else agree or disagree or condemn or simply wish the committee was run in a different matter... ask yourselves this: Prior to the committee, when we just had youtube highlights, and people on both sides claiming different narratives, resulting in a very muddy picture for the historical record... isn't it important to have a mostly-complete investigation and recreation of all of the events, statements, actions prior, during, and after the Capitol attack so that there is at least a chance of history having a clear record of what happened? In that light, I say the committee was very much was worthwhile.
@89th said in Liz Cheney Warns:
You can look up the full report here, but just as they showed summary videos of what happened that day, I don't expect anyone will open this link and read through the thousands of pages.
Here is a summary of what was found by the committee.
Now, whether you or I or anyone else agree or disagree or condemn or simply wish the committee was run in a different matter... ask yourselves this: Prior to the committee, when we just had youtube highlights, and people on both sides claiming different narratives, resulting in a very muddy picture for the historical record... isn't it important to have a mostly-complete investigation and recreation of all of the events, statements, actions prior, during, and after the Capitol attack so that there is at least a chance of history having a clear record of what happened? In that light, I say the committee was very much was worthwhile.
I'm sure nobody is denying that they went over everything with a fine toothed comb and framed every detail in the worst light to make it look like a planned insurrection. Of course the only jury this evidence was put before, was the hand-picked committee of politicians. How many people read this point about "a slate of false electors" and think to themselves that a president can just submit some paperwork that runs counter to the votes, and he stays president for life? The fact that that's not how it works, is an important detail that is inevitably overlooked in these framings of Jan 6 and Trump's post-election shenanigans in general. There was never any real danger of the government being overturned by either paperwork or violence, and that is something your side of the argument studiously denies.
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I'm not sure I agree with that. I don't think the threat was real enough to change the outcome of the election, certainly, but it was an absolute assault on <insert words here>, our norms, our peaceful transfer of power, our precedents, the Capitol, the members of congress, and so forth. Was the constitution the final defense that would've prevented anyone with bullhorns (worn or spoken into) an actual chance to change the election results? Yes. But as I like to do here, to repeat myself... prior to the committee, it was all muddy "he said she said" and youtube clips. I think the committee at least brought clarity and evidence throughout the day into the light and organized it well so there's less ambiguity on what happened that day.
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I'm not sure I agree with that. I don't think the threat was real enough to change the outcome of the election, certainly, but it was an absolute assault on <insert words here>, our norms, our peaceful transfer of power, our precedents, the Capitol, the members of congress, and so forth. Was the constitution the final defense that would've prevented anyone with bullhorns (worn or spoken into) an actual chance to change the election results? Yes. But as I like to do here, to repeat myself... prior to the committee, it was all muddy "he said she said" and youtube clips. I think the committee at least brought clarity and evidence throughout the day into the light and organized it well so there's less ambiguity on what happened that day.
@89th said in Liz Cheney Warns:
I'm not sure I agree with that. I don't think the threat was real enough to change the outcome of the election, certainly, but it was an absolute assault on <insert words here>, our norms, our peaceful transfer of power, our precedents, the Capitol, the members of congress, and so forth. Was the constitution the final defense that would've prevented anyone with bullhorns (worn or spoken into) an actual chance to change the election results? Yes. But as I like to do here, to repeat myself... prior to the committee, it was all muddy "he said she said" and youtube clips. I think the committee at least brought clarity and evidence throughout the day into the light and organized it well so there's less ambiguity on what happened that day.
Or, it was an official proceeding that was motivated to present Jan 6 in the most severe light possible, and that motivation resonated with you. But you also must realize that Jan 6 provided no clarity for those without that motivation. Again, just going over those summary points you linked to, one would not be blamed for thinking our Democracy hung on the brink that day. And of course that's what millions of people still think. And they are all wrong. And the "clarity" of the Jan 6 committee contributes to their error.
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FFS, @89th there has already been posted a glaring example of selective editing to try and embarrass Josh Hawley. We’ve discussed ad nauseum the refusal to allow the Republicans to appoint their own members (which is a huge breach of standards and practices), and then the outright refusal to allow rebuttal or even cross examination.
These steps on the part of the the committee are frigging egregious as hell, but IF January 6th was the absolute worst attack on American Democracy since the Civil War, that makes these actions by the committee not just egregious, but flat out a criminal dereliction of duty. If you believe the American people deserve to know the truth about January 6th, then that means a rigorous investigation, and a rigorous investigation must be able to stand up to cross examination, scrutiny, and debate.
The January 6th committee was a bigger show than the Circus I’m taking Finley too over Christmas….
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You can look up the full report here, but just as they showed summary videos of what happened that day, I don't expect anyone will open this link and read through the thousands of pages.
Here is a summary of what was found by the committee.
Now, whether you or I or anyone else agree or disagree or condemn or simply wish the committee was run in a different matter... ask yourselves this: Prior to the committee, when we just had youtube highlights, and people on both sides claiming different narratives, resulting in a very muddy picture for the historical record... isn't it important to have a mostly-complete investigation and recreation of all of the events, statements, actions prior, during, and after the Capitol attack so that there is at least a chance of history having a clear record of what happened? In that light, I say the committee was very much was worthwhile.
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Ya'll make good points. I don't think it was as corrupt or condemnable as you, and I think the net value output of the investigation and all of the interviews, documents, footage, and analysis is very much important for the historical record, and substantially better than the muddy he-said, she-said beforehand.
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I think you have to examine the context in which this happened, which is a scorched earth effort to destroy Trump as a candidate. No stone was left unturned to try to find something, anything, to prosecute or sue him on, anything to present to make him look bad. There is plenty of reason to assume bad intent. To try to judge the Jan 6 committee's actions as an isolated event is to be one of the blind men and the elephant.
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You can look up the full report here, but just as they showed summary videos of what happened that day, I don't expect anyone will open this link and read through the thousands of pages.
Here is a summary of what was found by the committee.
Now, whether you or I or anyone else agree or disagree or condemn or simply wish the committee was run in a different matter... ask yourselves this: Prior to the committee, when we just had youtube highlights, and people on both sides claiming different narratives, resulting in a very muddy picture for the historical record... isn't it important to have a mostly-complete investigation and recreation of all of the events, statements, actions prior, during, and after the Capitol attack so that there is at least a chance of history having a clear record of what happened? In that light, I say the committee was very much was worthwhile.
@89th said in Liz Cheney Warns:
isn't it important to have a mostly-complete investigation and recreation of all of the events, statements, actions prior, during, and after the Capitol attack so that there is at least a chance of history having a clear record of what happened?
So, when do we get that?
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I thought that Rep. Johnson, when he became speaker said he was going to release ALL of the Jan 6 footage.
Has that been done?
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I thought that Rep. Johnson, when he became speaker said he was going to release ALL of the Jan 6 footage.
Has that been done?
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5000 released. Only 35000 left to go. LOL
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It'll be very interesting to see a case by case analysis of the rioters and their punishments.
@Horace said in Liz Cheney Warns:
It'll be very interesting to see a case by case analysis of the rioters and their punishments.
Where have you seen that? I can’t imagine an organization putting in the time and effort to do that unless the real objective were cherry picking to froth up a subset of the electorate.
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@Horace said in Liz Cheney Warns:
It'll be very interesting to see a case by case analysis of the rioters and their punishments.
Where have you seen that? I can’t imagine an organization putting in the time and effort to do that unless the real objective were cherry picking to froth up a subset of the electorate.
@jon-nyc said in Liz Cheney Warns:
@Horace said in Liz Cheney Warns:
It'll be very interesting to see a case by case analysis of the rioters and their punishments.
Where have you seen that? I can’t imagine an organization putting in the time and effort to do that unless the real objective were cherry picking to froth up a subset of the electorate.
Trump has said he'd issue pardons for Jan 6 rioters, on a case by case basis. I will be interested to see the microscope put to each of those cases, and I trust the media will oblige me on that. That is assuming he issues any pardons.
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https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases
(But too lazy to go through them. 555)
