The man who shot Ashley Babbit
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@89th said in The man who shot Ashley Babbit:
@jon-nyc said in The man who shot Ashley Babbit:
Around she fucked. Find out she did.
Yup.
Imagine for a moment that in February 2025, a BLM mob hops the white house fence and a BLM chick (with her closest 100 friends) were trying to break down the front door where Trump is inside, and behind the glass door there were cops pointing guns saying "don't come in here we will shoot"...and then the BLM chick breaks down the door starts to go in with her 100 closest friends behind her.
Good shooting. It's a shame she caused it. But FAFO, for sure.
I think the shooting was marginal, as to whether it's justified to shoot an unarmed person.
But I'm sorry, you're either supremely ignorant or fucking stupid when it comes to firearms. Byrd carried a Glock 22. Typical penetration of the 180g HP service round is 18+ inches. IOW, a hole going in and a bigger hole going out.
The only reason that dumb fuck didn't kill somebody else was the Grace of God.
BTW, you DO KNOW capitol police had been ordered not to use lethal force, correct?
wrote on 22 Nov 2024, 15:44 last edited by@Jolly said in The man who shot Ashley Babbit:
The only reason that dumb fuck didn't kill somebody else was the Grace of God.
He also shot when she was up above the others going through the breached window. Yes the bullet could've ricocheted, but in general the visual of "he shot into a random crowd" is not accurate.
Here's my very scientific visual of why it wasn't just a "shot into the crowd".
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@jon-nyc said in The man who shot Ashley Babbit:
Seems like a non-answer.
I suppose you can say that. Byrd did not aim at any person specifically, he fired into the crowd. Whether he knew there were other USCP behind Babbitt is open to speculation.
But there were.
And that, along with his rather profound history of questionable behavior. is why I call it reckless.
wrote on 22 Nov 2024, 15:44 last edited by@George-K said in The man who shot Ashley Babbit:
@jon-nyc said in The man who shot Ashley Babbit:
Seems like a non-answer.
I suppose you can say that. Byrd did not aim at any person specifically, he fired into the crowd. Whether he knew there were other USCP behind Babbitt is open to speculation.
But there were.
And that, along with his rather profound history of questionable behavior. is why I call it reckless.
We should keep in mind that the Capitol police had a culture of pathetic weakness, to the extent that most of them committed suicide after having been called upon to do their jobs. It is heart breaking, but they were the worst of us.
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@jon-nyc said in The man who shot Ashley Babbit:
Seems like a non-answer.
I suppose you can say that. Byrd did not aim at any person specifically, he fired into the crowd. Whether he knew there were other USCP behind Babbitt is open to speculation.
But there were.
And that, along with his rather profound history of questionable behavior. is why I call it reckless.
wrote on 22 Nov 2024, 15:46 last edited by 89th@George-K said in The man who shot Ashley Babbit:
I suppose you can say that. Byrd did not aim at any person specifically, he fired into the crowd.
What?
If that is true, then I apologize. I figured he aimed at Babbit as she breached the top of the doorway. (I'm not being sarcastic)
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Yup, stopped that breach. It worked.
And not a random crowd.
Watch the video... as the crowd is breaking through security glass with chairs and flag poles, security on the other side, people yelling "he has a gun!!".... but yes, let's breach through the barrier, what's the worse that can happen?
Link to videowrote on 22 Nov 2024, 16:06 last edited by@89th said in The man who shot Ashley Babbit:
Yup, stopped that breach. It worked.
And not a random crowd.
Watch the video... as the crowd is breaking through security glass with chairs and flag poles, security on the other side, people yelling "he has a gun!!".... but yes, let's breach through the barrier, what's the worse that can happen?
Link to videoSeems like a fair shooting to me. The crowd was obviously willing to be violent, given how they were attacking the fortifications.
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wrote on 22 Nov 2024, 16:34 last edited by
I remain surprised that a lot more people didn't die on that day.
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wrote on 22 Nov 2024, 16:35 last edited by
On firearms knowledge and the use of lethal force, I'll take on any three of you.
Pick your team.
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wrote on 22 Nov 2024, 16:54 last edited by
Again Jolly, let's pretend this is Feb 2025.
Imagine for a moment that in February 2025, a BLM mob hops the white house fence and a BLM chick (with her closest 100 friends) were trying to break down the front door where Trump is inside, and behind the glass door there were cops pointing guns saying "don't come in here we will shoot"...and then the BLM chick breaks down the door starts to go in with her 100 closest friends behind her.
And the white house secret service opens fire after the multiple violent breaches (unknown weapons) against the first person to break through.
I 1,000,000,000% guarantee you would say the secret service was justified to open fire at that point to defend Trump in the white house.
Yes a billion percent.
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On firearms knowledge and the use of lethal force, I'll take on any three of you.
Pick your team.
wrote on 22 Nov 2024, 16:54 last edited by@Jolly said in The man who shot Ashley Babbit:
On firearms knowledge and the use of lethal force, I'll take on any three of you.
Pick your team.
I'm not attempting to claim any expertise except in my demonstrated expertise in not getting shot so far. If I was part of a mob violently breaking into a government building, and cops were standing behind the fortifications holding guns, I would think to myself that I might get shot here.
If you would like to argue about legal intricacies around fair use of lethal force, then at that point I think I know enough to know that the law is whatever a jury can be convinced to think in any given case, and for this case, good luck getting a jury to convict the officer.
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wrote on 22 Nov 2024, 16:56 last edited by
Also, of course you know firearms more than me.
But also being from the DC area, if I led a mob over just the outside of the white house fence, I would very much expect to get shot. Let alone a 2nd or 3rd door (perhaps last door before the President or Senator). Even on some long distance runs on the weekends if I were to run by the Capitol, I knew if I got too close to the doors (like 100 feet away), a cop would be over to warn me about it within 12 seconds. So to imagine how far Babbit got in her/mob attack into and within the Capitol.... for me, personally, it's not even a question that you'd be taken out eventually.
Nonetheless, the video speaks for itself IMO.
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On firearms knowledge and the use of lethal force, I'll take on any three of you.
Pick your team.
wrote on 22 Nov 2024, 17:29 last edited by jon-nyc@Jolly said in The man who shot Ashley Babbit:
On firearms knowledge and the use of lethal force, I'll take on any three of you.
Pick your team.
If it came with out Maga blinders, sure.
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wrote on 22 Nov 2024, 18:30 last edited by
Damn, I thought we were about to have a lethal force battle.
My team was going to be Dr. Hannibal Lecter, Gandalf and Darth Maul. I was going to hold their coats/cloaks.
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On firearms knowledge and the use of lethal force, I'll take on any three of you.
Pick your team.
wrote on 22 Nov 2024, 19:34 last edited by@Jolly said in The man who shot Ashley Babbit:
On firearms knowledge and the use of lethal force, I'll take on any three of you.
Pick your team.
Yes, we are all aware that you are your own huckleberry.
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wrote on 22 Nov 2024, 19:38 last edited by
Jolly said he'd take on any three, but we're up to like five, which is against the rules.
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wrote on 22 Nov 2024, 19:39 last edited by
There's no fucking way Jolly could take down Gandalf.
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There's no fucking way Jolly could take down Gandalf.
wrote on 22 Nov 2024, 20:18 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in The man who shot Ashley Babbit:
There's no fucking way Jolly could take down Gandalf.
As Robert Ruark said, all you have to do is bring enough gun.
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Again Jolly, let's pretend this is Feb 2025.
Imagine for a moment that in February 2025, a BLM mob hops the white house fence and a BLM chick (with her closest 100 friends) were trying to break down the front door where Trump is inside, and behind the glass door there were cops pointing guns saying "don't come in here we will shoot"...and then the BLM chick breaks down the door starts to go in with her 100 closest friends behind her.
And the white house secret service opens fire after the multiple violent breaches (unknown weapons) against the first person to break through.
I 1,000,000,000% guarantee you would say the secret service was justified to open fire at that point to defend Trump in the white house.
Yes a billion percent.
wrote on 22 Nov 2024, 21:07 last edited by@89th said in The man who shot Ashley Babbit:
Again Jolly, let's pretend this is Feb 2025.
Imagine for a moment that in February 2025, a BLM mob hops the white house fence and a BLM chick (with her closest 100 friends) were trying to break down the front door where Trump is inside, and behind the glass door there were cops pointing guns saying "don't come in here we will shoot"...and then the BLM chick breaks down the door starts to go in with her 100 closest friends behind her.
And the white house secret service opens fire after the multiple violent breaches (unknown weapons) against the first person to break through.
I 1,000,000,000% guarantee you would say the secret service was justified to open fire at that point to defend Trump in the white house.
Yes a billion percent.
A. We're not imagining. We have the shooting on video.
B. Even in the sorry ass state they are currently in, Byrd couldn't have gotten close enough to a Secret Service detail to sniff their shoes.For instance...
A. Byrd had already had a suspicious discharge of his weapon while off-duty, at a fleeing suspect. Unless the perp was trying to kill Byrd with the car, that's a big no-no.
B. Capitol police were even denied some less than lethal means of dealing with the crowd. Lethal force is the very last tactic they could use...I've read elsewhere they had been told not to use lethal force, but this talks about even less than lethal force:https://nypost.com/2021/04/14/capitol-riot-report-reveals-police-were-told-to-hold-back/
C. Byrd left his duty weapon in a restroom and forgot it. In many departments, that's a firing offense.
D. Byrd couldn't pass shotgun qualification. Now, if we assume he's shooting the FBI qual on QIT, he's shooting slugs (15) at anywhere from 50 to 7 yards. There are only two shots at 50 yards and one of them is kneeling.
E. Who "fires into the air"? Ever?
F. As I've previously stated, how Byrd only hurt one person is simply a small miracle. A pass-through should have been a certainty.So...Here we have a history of somebody exhibiting excitability and a propensity to discharge.
Byrd ain't a philosophical hill I'd die on.
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wrote on 22 Nov 2024, 21:41 last edited by
Neither is the behavior of that crowd.
Although, to her credit, Ashley choose that hill to die on.
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wrote on 22 Nov 2024, 21:54 last edited by
I'll tell you what I can say about that crowd...
Trump will be the 47th POTUS. Voters were able to decouple him from the riot. And while the riot should never have happened (for multiple reasons), some of the issues which precipitated it have helped elect your next President.
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@89th said in The man who shot Ashley Babbit:
@jon-nyc said in The man who shot Ashley Babbit:
Around she fucked. Find out she did.
Yup.
Imagine for a moment that in February 2025, a BLM mob hops the white house fence and a BLM chick (with her closest 100 friends) were trying to break down the front door where Trump is inside, and behind the glass door there were cops pointing guns saying "don't come in here we will shoot"...and then the BLM chick breaks down the door starts to go in with her 100 closest friends behind her.
Good shooting. It's a shame she caused it. But FAFO, for sure.
I think the shooting was marginal, as to whether it's justified to shoot an unarmed person.
But I'm sorry, you're either supremely ignorant or fucking stupid when it comes to firearms. Byrd carried a Glock 22. Typical penetration of the 180g HP service round is 18+ inches. IOW, a hole going in and a bigger hole going out.
The only reason that dumb fuck didn't kill somebody else was the Grace of God.
BTW, you DO KNOW capitol police had been ordered not to use lethal force, correct?
wrote on 25 Nov 2024, 15:37 last edited by@Jolly said in The man who shot Ashley Babbit:
Imagine for a moment that in February 2025, a BLM mob hops the white house fence and a BLM chick (with her closest 100 friends) were trying to break down the front door
Not just this. Imagine if there was a mob outside your house (or @Jolly house). How would either of you react?
I dont have any guns, so obviously I would not shoot, but imagine Jolly would shoot the person.
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wrote on 25 Nov 2024, 16:12 last edited by Jolly
Ever hunt? Especially quail or duck hunt?
Target fixation can be a thing and any person who hunts those animals knows darn well you better know what's behind what you're shooting at and what's within your barrel arc.
Quail and pheasant hunters get shot every year. Duck is horrible, because when you screw up there, it's close range and usually lethal to your hunting partner.
So, even if I have to shoot somebody in the yard, I really don't want to shoot the innocent person behind him.
