Debate tonight

[LuFins Dad]

I heard an interesting thought. They dosed Biden too late. The particular drug cocktail might take a while to kick in, which is why Biden improved towards the end…

[Mik]

@LuFins-Dad my thought exactly.

[89th]

@Mik said in Debate tonight:

@89th said in Debate tonight:

@Axtremus said in Debate tonight:

Has the debate changed anyone's mind on whom to vote for comes the general election?

If it gives @Jolly some joy, during the first 20-30 minutes even I found myself thinking "I want Trump back in office, maybe I'll vote for him".

Me too. Then he lost it. Didn't answer the questions before him, went back to his same old tropes.

Agreed. The debate was a "tap-in putt", to put it in golf terms for him. Trump's record (aside from the COVID impact) is great... a great economy, minimal international conflicts, etc. Biden is old, inflation sucks, the border is open, the Afghan disaster... this was easy for Trump to come in and crush.

But when he did his typical answer to the question of whether he'll accept the election results, he lost me again. "Well if the election is free and fair..." Well, it was in 2020, you lost, you made shit up, you caused a riot, you disgraced the transfer of power. If he had just said "Absolutely, we've identified flaws in the system, the election will be clear this year, and I'll accept the results.... which by the way, will be me."

[LuFins Dad]

Trump got pulled in a little, but he actually stayed within his own limits, and there were several excellent moments by him.

1. His original response to the January 6th question was excellent. Was it a deflection? Yes, but that’s the business. On January 6th inflation was low, Russia wasn’t invading Ukraine, Iran was bankrupt, yada, yada, yada… Excellent.

2. The retaliation question. His reply that the way he will retaliate against his enemies by success… Very well done…

Yes, Trump got pulled into some of his Trumpian responses, but that was always expected.

I still won’t vote for either of them, but I will give Trump a win on this.

[89th]

I mean, he deflected. But his answer that "Nancy Pelosi takes all the blame" is so 3rd grade-ish. "Well bobby said he did it, so don't worry about the 100 things I did to contribute to it." Mother fucker it would be so nice if he would just say something along the lines of "I was there to speak to my supporters who want to ensure elections are free and fair, and that they will be for future generations, and I was absolutely appalled by those who stormed the Capitol to disrupt a constitutional procedure." If you're going to lie, at least make it sound like you were appalled, instead of lying that it was totally somebody else's fault.

[Horace]

I was astonished that Trump didn't dunk on Biden after Biden's first mortifying lock-up.

[Jolly]

@89th said in Debate tonight:

@Axtremus said in Debate tonight:

Has the debate changed anyone's mind on whom to vote for comes the general election?

If it gives @Jolly some joy, during the first 20-30 minutes even I found myself thinking "I want Trump back in office, maybe I'll vote for him".

[89th]

@Horace said in Debate tonight:

I was astonished that Trump didn't dunk on Biden after Biden's first mortifying lock-up.

Me too, but the stare (split screen) from Trump was subtly very powerful.

[Jolly]

@89th said in Debate tonight:

I mean, he deflected. But his answer that "Nancy Pelosi takes all the blame" is so 3rd grade-ish. "Well bobby said he did it, so don't worry about the 100 things I did to contribute to it." Mother fucker it would be so nice if he would just say something along the lines of "I was there to speak to my supporters who want to ensure elections are free and fair, and that they will be for future generations, and I was absolutely appalled by those who stormed the Capitol to disrupt a constitutional procedure." If you're going to lie, at least make it sound like you were appalled, instead of lying that it was totally somebody else's fault.

You want him to lie?

Trump is convinced the 2020 election was rigged. A lot of other people, including me, believe the same thing.

And I don't have any problem with pols pursuing every tactic available to them under the Constitution. Protest peacefully (what Trump said) at the Capitol? Apply what pressure you can.

Contrast that with the peaceful BLM riots.

You know, both types of riots were wrong, but there's a difference between the rioters...One group was worried about the country and our Constitution. The other just wanted to tear the system down, with violence aforethought.

Yet, you're fixated on the Jan 6 stuff, still spouting the House Committee talking points. Good thing you memorized them, since the Committee has destroyed records from their production willy-nilly, imparting to those vapid verbosities the actual importance to the country (except for the items that incriminated them) that clung to them to begin with.

Quit drinking the Kool-aid.

[Jolly]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Debate tonight:

@Mik said in Debate tonight:

Me too. Then he lost it. Didn't answer the questions before him, went back to his same old tropes.

I thought that during the short bit I saw that Trump wasn't the same as in previous elections either. He seemed to be completely lacking in charm or any kind of personal connection. I'm not trying to downplay the Biden debacle because he was absolutely horrible, but Trump wasn't that much better. Does anybody really want either of those two to be running the place in 3-4 years time?

Watch Trump at his rallies a bit. He dialed it down on purpose. Yes, I think he got off-script in the last part of the debate, but how much debate prep did he put in? AFAIK, none.

Go back and look at the Hannity interview about a week ago. Same Trump.

I think the Daily Wire had it right...Trump may not be quite as sharp as 20 years ago, but he's still a smart man with a wide command of off-the-cuff facts and stats. Yeah, he gets some things wrong, but so does every pol that speaks as much as he does. But more importantly, Trump's demeanor during the first part of the debate shows he can still learn.

The Resident is beyond the ability to learn, which is a death knell for a political career that was based on positional shape shifting.

[89th]

@Jolly said in Debate tonight:

@89th said in Debate tonight:

I mean, he deflected. But his answer that "Nancy Pelosi takes all the blame" is so 3rd grade-ish. "Well bobby said he did it, so don't worry about the 100 things I did to contribute to it." Mother fucker it would be so nice if he would just say something along the lines of "I was there to speak to my supporters who want to ensure elections are free and fair, and that they will be for future generations, and I was absolutely appalled by those who stormed the Capitol to disrupt a constitutional procedure." If you're going to lie, at least make it sound like you were appalled, instead of lying that it was totally somebody else's fault.

You want him to lie?

No, I would prefer that stops if at all possible.

[Jolly]

@89th said in Debate tonight:

@Jolly said in Debate tonight:

@89th said in Debate tonight:

I mean, he deflected. But his answer that "Nancy Pelosi takes all the blame" is so 3rd grade-ish. "Well bobby said he did it, so don't worry about the 100 things I did to contribute to it." Mother fucker it would be so nice if he would just say something along the lines of "I was there to speak to my supporters who want to ensure elections are free and fair, and that they will be for future generations, and I was absolutely appalled by those who stormed the Capitol to disrupt a constitutional procedure." If you're going to lie, at least make it sound like you were appalled, instead of lying that it was totally somebody else's fault.

You want him to lie?

No, I would prefer that stops if at all possible.

Now, address the rest of it, because I've never met a pol that didn't lie.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Jolly said in Debate tonight:

Watch Trump at his rallies a bit. He dialed it down on purpose. Yes, I think he got off-script in the last part of the debate, but how much debate prep did he put in? AFAIK, none.

I very much doubt he didn't prepare.

[Jolly]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Debate tonight:

@Jolly said in Debate tonight:

Watch Trump at his rallies a bit. He dialed it down on purpose. Yes, I think he got off-script in the last part of the debate, but how much debate prep did he put in? AFAIK, none.

I very much doubt he didn't prepare.

You don't keep up with Trump. I do, at least to a certain extent.

Do I think he made a conscious decision to try to not get baited? Yes, I do.

Do I think he did any mocks or any deep dives on facts or stats? Nope, I don't.

Again, he did a couple of interviews last week. Much of what was said in those interviews was said last night.

[taiwan_girl]

It is a sad state of US President politics that the consensus is that President Trump won the debate. I believe in any other debate over the past XX years, President Trump's performance would not be considered a winner.

Maybe his debate reponses should go in the "Trump Lies" forum thread.

(I did not see the debate or hear it. Only read the transcript and saw some clips). But, President Biden was terrible, so the bar was quite low.

[Horace]

Biden lied at least as much as Trump did. Most of the facile TDS talking points are lies, about Trump saying this or that overtly fascist or racist or anti-military thing, and Biden has been saying them for the past 4 years. Because they work? Maybe. I know they feel good to hear, for the psychologically adolescent parts of base. (Highly represented online.) I don't actually know that they work politically.

[taiwan_girl]

@Horace said in Debate tonight:

Biden lied at least as much as Trump did

And that somehow makes it okay???

As I said above, the fact that President Trump was considered the winner of the debate is a sad "commentary" on the two major options (currently) on the ballot.

[Axtremus]

[Horace]

@taiwan_girl said in Debate tonight:

@Horace said in Debate tonight:

Biden lied at least as much as Trump did

And that somehow makes it okay???

I'm really sorry for contributing a "both sides are equal" style of argument to this forum, TG. I know how you hate those. I'll try to do better in the future. This has been another valuable opportunity for learning and growth for me.

[Horace]