Debate tonight
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I mean, he deflected. But his answer that "Nancy Pelosi takes all the blame" is so 3rd grade-ish. "Well bobby said he did it, so don't worry about the 100 things I did to contribute to it." Mother fucker it would be so nice if he would just say something along the lines of "I was there to speak to my supporters who want to ensure elections are free and fair, and that they will be for future generations, and I was absolutely appalled by those who stormed the Capitol to disrupt a constitutional procedure." If you're going to lie, at least make it sound like you were appalled, instead of lying that it was totally somebody else's fault.
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@Axtremus said in Debate tonight:
Has the debate changed anyone's mind on whom to vote for comes the general election?
If it gives @Jolly some joy, during the first 20-30 minutes even I found myself thinking "I want Trump back in office, maybe I'll vote for him".
@89th said in Debate tonight:
@Axtremus said in Debate tonight:
Has the debate changed anyone's mind on whom to vote for comes the general election?
If it gives @Jolly some joy, during the first 20-30 minutes even I found myself thinking "I want Trump back in office, maybe I'll vote for him".
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I mean, he deflected. But his answer that "Nancy Pelosi takes all the blame" is so 3rd grade-ish. "Well bobby said he did it, so don't worry about the 100 things I did to contribute to it." Mother fucker it would be so nice if he would just say something along the lines of "I was there to speak to my supporters who want to ensure elections are free and fair, and that they will be for future generations, and I was absolutely appalled by those who stormed the Capitol to disrupt a constitutional procedure." If you're going to lie, at least make it sound like you were appalled, instead of lying that it was totally somebody else's fault.
@89th said in Debate tonight:
I mean, he deflected. But his answer that "Nancy Pelosi takes all the blame" is so 3rd grade-ish. "Well bobby said he did it, so don't worry about the 100 things I did to contribute to it." Mother fucker it would be so nice if he would just say something along the lines of "I was there to speak to my supporters who want to ensure elections are free and fair, and that they will be for future generations, and I was absolutely appalled by those who stormed the Capitol to disrupt a constitutional procedure." If you're going to lie, at least make it sound like you were appalled, instead of lying that it was totally somebody else's fault.
You want him to lie?
Trump is convinced the 2020 election was rigged. A lot of other people, including me, believe the same thing.
And I don't have any problem with pols pursuing every tactic available to them under the Constitution. Protest peacefully (what Trump said) at the Capitol? Apply what pressure you can.
Contrast that with the peaceful BLM riots.
You know, both types of riots were wrong, but there's a difference between the rioters...One group was worried about the country and our Constitution. The other just wanted to tear the system down, with violence aforethought.
Yet, you're fixated on the Jan 6 stuff, still spouting the House Committee talking points. Good thing you memorized them, since the Committee has destroyed records from their production willy-nilly, imparting to those vapid verbosities the actual importance to the country (except for the items that incriminated them) that clung to them to begin with.
Quit drinking the Kool-aid.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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@Mik said in Debate tonight:
Me too. Then he lost it. Didn't answer the questions before him, went back to his same old tropes.
I thought that during the short bit I saw that Trump wasn't the same as in previous elections either. He seemed to be completely lacking in charm or any kind of personal connection. I'm not trying to downplay the Biden debacle because he was absolutely horrible, but Trump wasn't that much better. Does anybody really want either of those two to be running the place in 3-4 years time?
@Doctor-Phibes said in Debate tonight:
@Mik said in Debate tonight:
Me too. Then he lost it. Didn't answer the questions before him, went back to his same old tropes.
I thought that during the short bit I saw that Trump wasn't the same as in previous elections either. He seemed to be completely lacking in charm or any kind of personal connection. I'm not trying to downplay the Biden debacle because he was absolutely horrible, but Trump wasn't that much better. Does anybody really want either of those two to be running the place in 3-4 years time?
Watch Trump at his rallies a bit. He dialed it down on purpose. Yes, I think he got off-script in the last part of the debate, but how much debate prep did he put in? AFAIK, none.
Go back and look at the Hannity interview about a week ago. Same Trump.
I think the Daily Wire had it right...Trump may not be quite as sharp as 20 years ago, but he's still a smart man with a wide command of off-the-cuff facts and stats. Yeah, he gets some things wrong, but so does every pol that speaks as much as he does. But more importantly, Trump's demeanor during the first part of the debate shows he can still learn.
The Resident is beyond the ability to learn, which is a death knell for a political career that was based on positional shape shifting.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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@89th said in Debate tonight:
I mean, he deflected. But his answer that "Nancy Pelosi takes all the blame" is so 3rd grade-ish. "Well bobby said he did it, so don't worry about the 100 things I did to contribute to it." Mother fucker it would be so nice if he would just say something along the lines of "I was there to speak to my supporters who want to ensure elections are free and fair, and that they will be for future generations, and I was absolutely appalled by those who stormed the Capitol to disrupt a constitutional procedure." If you're going to lie, at least make it sound like you were appalled, instead of lying that it was totally somebody else's fault.
You want him to lie?
Trump is convinced the 2020 election was rigged. A lot of other people, including me, believe the same thing.
And I don't have any problem with pols pursuing every tactic available to them under the Constitution. Protest peacefully (what Trump said) at the Capitol? Apply what pressure you can.
Contrast that with the peaceful BLM riots.
You know, both types of riots were wrong, but there's a difference between the rioters...One group was worried about the country and our Constitution. The other just wanted to tear the system down, with violence aforethought.
Yet, you're fixated on the Jan 6 stuff, still spouting the House Committee talking points. Good thing you memorized them, since the Committee has destroyed records from their production willy-nilly, imparting to those vapid verbosities the actual importance to the country (except for the items that incriminated them) that clung to them to begin with.
Quit drinking the Kool-aid.
@Jolly said in Debate tonight:
@89th said in Debate tonight:
I mean, he deflected. But his answer that "Nancy Pelosi takes all the blame" is so 3rd grade-ish. "Well bobby said he did it, so don't worry about the 100 things I did to contribute to it." Mother fucker it would be so nice if he would just say something along the lines of "I was there to speak to my supporters who want to ensure elections are free and fair, and that they will be for future generations, and I was absolutely appalled by those who stormed the Capitol to disrupt a constitutional procedure." If you're going to lie, at least make it sound like you were appalled, instead of lying that it was totally somebody else's fault.
You want him to lie?
No, I would prefer that stops if at all possible.
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@Jolly said in Debate tonight:
@89th said in Debate tonight:
I mean, he deflected. But his answer that "Nancy Pelosi takes all the blame" is so 3rd grade-ish. "Well bobby said he did it, so don't worry about the 100 things I did to contribute to it." Mother fucker it would be so nice if he would just say something along the lines of "I was there to speak to my supporters who want to ensure elections are free and fair, and that they will be for future generations, and I was absolutely appalled by those who stormed the Capitol to disrupt a constitutional procedure." If you're going to lie, at least make it sound like you were appalled, instead of lying that it was totally somebody else's fault.
You want him to lie?
No, I would prefer that stops if at all possible.
@89th said in Debate tonight:
@Jolly said in Debate tonight:
@89th said in Debate tonight:
I mean, he deflected. But his answer that "Nancy Pelosi takes all the blame" is so 3rd grade-ish. "Well bobby said he did it, so don't worry about the 100 things I did to contribute to it." Mother fucker it would be so nice if he would just say something along the lines of "I was there to speak to my supporters who want to ensure elections are free and fair, and that they will be for future generations, and I was absolutely appalled by those who stormed the Capitol to disrupt a constitutional procedure." If you're going to lie, at least make it sound like you were appalled, instead of lying that it was totally somebody else's fault.
You want him to lie?
No, I would prefer that stops if at all possible.
Now, address the rest of it, because I've never met a pol that didn't lie.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Debate tonight:
@Mik said in Debate tonight:
Me too. Then he lost it. Didn't answer the questions before him, went back to his same old tropes.
I thought that during the short bit I saw that Trump wasn't the same as in previous elections either. He seemed to be completely lacking in charm or any kind of personal connection. I'm not trying to downplay the Biden debacle because he was absolutely horrible, but Trump wasn't that much better. Does anybody really want either of those two to be running the place in 3-4 years time?
Watch Trump at his rallies a bit. He dialed it down on purpose. Yes, I think he got off-script in the last part of the debate, but how much debate prep did he put in? AFAIK, none.
Go back and look at the Hannity interview about a week ago. Same Trump.
I think the Daily Wire had it right...Trump may not be quite as sharp as 20 years ago, but he's still a smart man with a wide command of off-the-cuff facts and stats. Yeah, he gets some things wrong, but so does every pol that speaks as much as he does. But more importantly, Trump's demeanor during the first part of the debate shows he can still learn.
The Resident is beyond the ability to learn, which is a death knell for a political career that was based on positional shape shifting.
@Jolly said in Debate tonight:
Watch Trump at his rallies a bit. He dialed it down on purpose. Yes, I think he got off-script in the last part of the debate, but how much debate prep did he put in? AFAIK, none.
I very much doubt he didn't prepare.
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@Jolly said in Debate tonight:
Watch Trump at his rallies a bit. He dialed it down on purpose. Yes, I think he got off-script in the last part of the debate, but how much debate prep did he put in? AFAIK, none.
I very much doubt he didn't prepare.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Debate tonight:
@Jolly said in Debate tonight:
Watch Trump at his rallies a bit. He dialed it down on purpose. Yes, I think he got off-script in the last part of the debate, but how much debate prep did he put in? AFAIK, none.
I very much doubt he didn't prepare.
You don't keep up with Trump. I do, at least to a certain extent.
Do I think he made a conscious decision to try to not get baited? Yes, I do.
Do I think he did any mocks or any deep dives on facts or stats? Nope, I don't.
Again, he did a couple of interviews last week. Much of what was said in those interviews was said last night.
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It is a sad state of US President politics that the consensus is that President Trump won the debate. I believe in any other debate over the past XX years, President Trump's performance would not be considered a winner.
Maybe his debate reponses should go in the "Trump Lies" forum thread.
(I did not see the debate or hear it. Only read the transcript and saw some clips). But, President Biden was terrible, so the bar was quite low.
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Biden lied at least as much as Trump did. Most of the facile TDS talking points are lies, about Trump saying this or that overtly fascist or racist or anti-military thing, and Biden has been saying them for the past 4 years. Because they work? Maybe. I know they feel good to hear, for the psychologically adolescent parts of base. (Highly represented online.) I don't actually know that they work politically.
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Biden lied at least as much as Trump did. Most of the facile TDS talking points are lies, about Trump saying this or that overtly fascist or racist or anti-military thing, and Biden has been saying them for the past 4 years. Because they work? Maybe. I know they feel good to hear, for the psychologically adolescent parts of base. (Highly represented online.) I don't actually know that they work politically.
@Horace said in Debate tonight:
Biden lied at least as much as Trump did
And that somehow makes it okay???
As I said above, the fact that President Trump was considered the winner of the debate is a sad "commentary" on the two major options (currently) on the ballot.
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@Horace said in Debate tonight:
Biden lied at least as much as Trump did
And that somehow makes it okay???
As I said above, the fact that President Trump was considered the winner of the debate is a sad "commentary" on the two major options (currently) on the ballot.
@taiwan_girl said in Debate tonight:
@Horace said in Debate tonight:
Biden lied at least as much as Trump did
And that somehow makes it okay???
I'm really sorry for contributing a "both sides are equal" style of argument to this forum, TG. I know how you hate those. I'll try to do better in the future. This has been another valuable opportunity for learning and growth for me.
Education is extremely important.
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@Axtremus said in Debate tonight:
Do you really think it adds to this forum to present someone else's dumbshit tribal ideas? Like we don't know all the dumbshit tribal ideas that are floating out there? How about contributing your own thoughts on something, Ax? Please try to be a better poster. I've learned so much, and have grown so much, and I think you can, too. Let's grow together.
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@89th said in Debate tonight:
@Jolly said in Debate tonight:
@89th said in Debate tonight:
I mean, he deflected. But his answer that "Nancy Pelosi takes all the blame" is so 3rd grade-ish. "Well bobby said he did it, so don't worry about the 100 things I did to contribute to it." Mother fucker it would be so nice if he would just say something along the lines of "I was there to speak to my supporters who want to ensure elections are free and fair, and that they will be for future generations, and I was absolutely appalled by those who stormed the Capitol to disrupt a constitutional procedure." If you're going to lie, at least make it sound like you were appalled, instead of lying that it was totally somebody else's fault.
You want him to lie?
No, I would prefer that stops if at all possible.
Now, address the rest of it, because I've never met a pol that didn't lie.
@Jolly said in Debate tonight:
@89th said in Debate tonight:
@Jolly said in Debate tonight:
@89th said in Debate tonight:
I mean, he deflected. But his answer that "Nancy Pelosi takes all the blame" is so 3rd grade-ish. "Well bobby said he did it, so don't worry about the 100 things I did to contribute to it." Mother fucker it would be so nice if he would just say something along the lines of "I was there to speak to my supporters who want to ensure elections are free and fair, and that they will be for future generations, and I was absolutely appalled by those who stormed the Capitol to disrupt a constitutional procedure." If you're going to lie, at least make it sound like you were appalled, instead of lying that it was totally somebody else's fault.
You want him to lie?
No, I would prefer that stops if at all possible.
Now, address the rest of it, because I've never met a pol that didn't lie.
I can't address the rest of it. I don't believe that Trump actually thinks he won and was cheated. That's what he tells his followers but he knows he lost.
As for BLM, you have no argument from me.
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@Horace said in Debate tonight:
Biden lied at least as much as Trump did
And that somehow makes it okay???
As I said above, the fact that President Trump was considered the winner of the debate is a sad "commentary" on the two major options (currently) on the ballot.
@taiwan_girl said in Debate tonight:
@Horace said in Debate tonight:
Biden lied at least as much as Trump did
And that somehow makes it okay???
As I said above, the fact that President Trump was considered the winner of the debate is a sad "commentary" on the two major options (currently) on the ballot.
Indeed. Since 2016 I have been hopeful that the current phase we're in will pass and we'll somewhat return to a respected and mature discourse. Oh how innocent times were when it was scandalous that Bush Sr "checked his watch" during a debate, or that a VP didn't know how to spell potatoe, or it was a news story that Bill Clinton got up to speak while answering a question.
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@taiwan_girl said in Debate tonight:
@Horace said in Debate tonight:
Biden lied at least as much as Trump did
And that somehow makes it okay???
I'm really sorry for contributing a "both sides are equal" style of argument to this forum, TG. I know how you hate those. I'll try to do better in the future. This has been another valuable opportunity for learning and growth for me.
@Horace said in Debate tonight:
@taiwan_girl said in Debate tonight:
@Horace said in Debate tonight:
Biden lied at least as much as Trump did
And that somehow makes it okay???
I'm really sorry for contributing a "both sides are equal" style of argument to this forum, TG. I know how you hate those. I'll try to do better in the future. This has been another valuable opportunity for learning and growth for me.
Hey now... there are very fine people, on both sides.
UGH, forced self-tangent. I wish Trump clarified that the statement (which I agree with!) he said about Charlottesville IS accurate. There WERE many very fine people on both sides of the protest... proud Virginians, who didn't want to see their Confederate heritage erased. I can understand and I personally empathize with that view point. It didn't mean the Nazi costume players represented the whole protest.
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Nate is PISSED…
https://www.natesilver.net/p/joe-biden-should-drop-out
A few highlights:
If I were a single parent supporting three kids on a minimum-wage job, who barely had time to follow the news, could you really fault me for thinking the one thing I know is that this guy is too fucking old to be president??
I chuckled at this one
But he absolutely crushed Biden, 67-33, in CNN’s poll of debate-watchers. How bad do you have to screw up to lose a debate by 34 points to Donald Trump in a country as divided as this one??
He almost says the quiet part out loud…
White House staffers who unskew the polls showing Biden trailing, charlatans selling you “hopium”, columnists who predicted (!) that Trump was going to drop out of the debate (!!) — if you’re a Democrat, you should be angry at these people for putting you in this predicament. The same goes for special interest groups who insisted that Kamala Harris ought to be VP — against Biden’s initial instincts — even though she’d just run one of the most underperforming campaigns in primary history. Without that, Democrats would have a better set of options, or Biden might not have run again in the first place..
Whoa, bitching about RBG?!
And you should be angry at Joe Biden, every bit as much as you should be angry at Ruth Bader Ginsburg..
Can he recover, Nate?
But instead he’s behind. And once the polling fully accounts for the effects of the debate within a few weeks, he’s likely to be as far behind as he’s ever been, with less time left than he’s ever had. How is the man you saw on stage tonight supposed to turn things around? Or even a 30 percent better version of the man you saw tonight? Sure, it’s possible. But is that really the bet you want to make if you’re a Democrat who thinks Trump is an existential threat to democracy and everything else??
What are the other options?
Picking a new nominee via superdelegates at the convention would be like attending a shitshow at a plumbers’ convention. And Harris remains quite unpopular too, although her disapproval ratings are now notably better than Biden’s. Either of these candidates are probably below 50 percent to win against Trump. But what matters is that they’re probably better bets than Biden. Give me Harris at this point, who at least is more of a blank slate. I’m not a Gavin Newsom guy, but give me Newsom, who at least has had designs on the job and governs a state with the 5th largest economy in the world. Harris and Newsom are very much not my preferred options — but I prefer them to Biden.
But don’t give me any more bullshit about how age is just a number or just a media fixation — or how changing candidates just isn’t how it’s done. We’re playing the highest-stakes game of poker you can imagine, and you do whatever in your power to improve your odds — even if it’s only from 25 percent to 35 percent..
So who are you going to vote for?
since I don’t live in a swing state: after that debate tonight, I’m going to vote third-party if Biden remains on the ballot as a protest against Biden’s irresponsibility in seeking a second term and the Democratic Party’s irresponsibility in nominating him without a serious primary contest..
The Brad
