The Making of a Banana Republic
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@Jolly said in The Making of a Banana Republic:
If you like abortion on demand, at any stage of pregnancy, vote for Biden
I dont think this is true. Please provide info where he has advocate for on demand abortion at any stage.
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@taiwan_girl said in The Making of a Banana Republic:
Please provide info where he has advocate for on demand abortion at any stage.
You're asking the wrong question.
Please provide info where he says that there should be a limit on abortion at any age.
ETA: Ask any pro-abortion politician that question.
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@George-K You should be a lawyer. That is kind of a leading statement. 555
President Trump said recently on abortion:
"At the end of the day, this is all about the will of the people," Trump said.
So, should I understand that he is okay with abortion at any time that is what the people want?
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@taiwan_girl said in The Making of a Banana Republic:
So, should I understand that he is okay with abortion at any time that is what the people want?
Yes. If he's being honest (LOL).
But that's the point of Dobbs, isn't it? Bending the Constitution to support Roe via a "privacy" explanation is just plain silly.
If the populace of a state want to codify abortion, let them do it. If they want to ban it, let them do it.
Or...in simpler terms, elect those who support their views because..."democracy."
Federalism is the point of Dobbs.
Now, if the pro, or anti, abortion proponents want to nationalize it, I'm fine with that. Let Congress grow a spine and enact a law on either side.
Because...."democracy" again.
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@taiwan_girl said in The Making of a Banana Republic:
@Jolly said in The Making of a Banana Republic:
If you like abortion on demand, at any stage of pregnancy, vote for Biden
I dont think this is true. Please provide info where he has advocate for on demand abortion at any stage.
His official position:
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@Jolly said in The Making of a Banana Republic:
Secondly, maybe you were raised in different political waters, but politics IS a dirty, nasty business, no matter the form of government or the geographical location. As the stakes and power grow larger, so do the sordid side effects.
But there is no alternative, no matter how you wish it.
I disagree... yes politics is often nasty, but it doesn't have to be. If Biden is moldy cheese, then Trump is cheese covered with layers of grime. It makes recent Presidents and nominees look relatively clean... Obama, Romney, Bush, McCain, Gore, Clinton... Just because politics is often a dirty nasty business doesn't mean we should be fine with the moldy or grime-layered cheese.
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@89th said in The Making of a Banana Republic:
As with 2016 and 2020, I will not vote for either, and if Biden wins, that's probably better for the country than Trump's impact, and also helps DeSantis beat Kamala in 2028.
So you give the power of your vote to whomever cares more about the results than you do. It's a vote for not caring, which is ok, but rarely owned by those doing the voting. It's just an interesting perspective to care so much about the degradation represented by Trump, while casting your vote for not caring whether he wins or loses.
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@89th said in The Making of a Banana Republic:
@Jolly said in The Making of a Banana Republic:
Secondly, maybe you were raised in different political waters, but politics IS a dirty, nasty business, no matter the form of government or the geographical location. As the stakes and power grow larger, so do the sordid side effects.
But there is no alternative, no matter how you wish it.
I disagree... yes politics is often nasty, but it doesn't have to be. If Biden is moldy cheese, then Trump is cheese covered with layers of grime. It makes recent Presidents and nominees look relatively clean... Obama, Romney, Bush, McCain, Gore, Clinton... Just because politics is often a dirty nasty business doesn't mean we should be fine with the moldy or grime-layered cheese.
Alonso, tell Sancho to hand you your lance.
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@George-K said in The Making of a Banana Republic:
@taiwan_girl said in The Making of a Banana Republic:
Please provide info where he has advocate for on demand abortion at any stage.
You're asking the wrong question.
Please provide info where he says that there should be a limit on abortion at any age.
ETA: Ask any pro-abortion politician that question.
Slippery slope politics. The politics of sniffs. You can't say a reasonable thing that sniffs of a direction to the other side. Funny how people are so dumb.
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My take on Trump, which is coherent and brilliant as always, is that he makes clear the distinction between a politician as a worker hired to do a job, and a human as a symbol and role model to be venerated. If part of the message of Trump is that he is a contractor, hired by interests who think he is the man to do the job, rather than a spiritual leader, then that is ok.
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@Horace said in The Making of a Banana Republic:
@89th said in The Making of a Banana Republic:
As with 2016 and 2020, I will not vote for either, and if Biden wins, that's probably better for the country than Trump's impact, and also helps DeSantis beat Kamala in 2028.
So you give the power of your vote to whomever cares more about the results than you do. It's a vote for not caring, which is ok, but rarely owned by those doing the voting. It's just an interesting perspective to care so much about the degradation represented by Trump, while casting your vote for not caring whether he wins or loses.
Yeah basically, or moreso it's a protest that I don't think either candidate is worthy (to me) to put my ballot in their box. If you FORCED me to pick, which is a fun thought experiment, I'd probably pick Trump just to get the bump in stock value and he's much more entertaining to watch on the news. Plus any SCOTUS vacancies...
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@taiwan_girl said in The Making of a Banana Republic:
@Jolly That is as indirect as the quote I played from President Trump. So then, I guess that both candidates support abortion at any time. 555
(And I think we both know that is not the case. Neither of them do.)
How do you know? Do you think you could pry out of Biden's mouth that he is for restricting abortion at 7 months? Has anybody ever pried that from his mouth, or the mouths of any progressive Democrat?
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@taiwan_girl said in The Making of a Banana Republic:
(And I think we both know that is not the case. Neither of them do.)
There are dozens of videos in which a pro-abortion politician is asked whether s/he supports the practice of abortion up to the moment of birth. You'll be hard-pressed to find one that condemns it. The response is invariably, "The right of a woman to decide what is right for her body...blah, blah, blah."
If you don't support it, say it. Because if you don't say it, you tacitly support it.
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@George-K said in The Making of a Banana Republic:
If you don't support it, say it. Because if you don't say it, you tacitly support it.
Agree. That is why the "arguement" works for President Trump also, based on his latest thoughts.
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@taiwan_girl said in The Making of a Banana Republic:
That is why the "arguement" works for President Trump also, based on his latest thoughts.
My understanding is that he has "moderated" his opinion on the matter - setting an upper limit which is pretty consistent with what most European countries have.
Biden has not moderated.
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@George-K I do believe (and I think it is the obvious reality) that both candidates do not support on demand abortion at any time.
But it is not fair to say that President Biden is in favor of it and President Trump is against when the most recent statements from President Trump do not say that either.
It would be just as easy to say, that based on their recent statements (or lack of statements) both candidates have not spoken out against allowing abortion at any time.
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@taiwan_girl said in The Making of a Banana Republic:
@Jolly That is as indirect as the quote I played from President Trump. So then, I guess that both candidates support abortion at any time. 555
(And I think we both know that is not the case. Neither of them do.)
Don't always take what a politician says or does at face value. Pay close attention to what they do or what they try to do.
Trump is pro-life. LuFin might argue with me because of Trump's softening on early term abortion, but that's pragmatic politics. If you can't get elected, you can't effect outcomes. Would Roe v. Wade have been overturned with Biden appointed justices?
Biden is pro-death. He mumbles about being Catholic, but Jesus taught that you would be known by your fruit. Biden has put no brakes on the most radical abortion advocates among his supporters. His Just-us Department has criminalized several forms of protest against abortion. Some leaders in his party have even talked about letting babies die after they are born. His White House position paper is very clear: Thou shalt not intervene at any point in a woman's pregnancy to stop the abortion process.
Now, what say you?