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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
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  3. The Making of a Banana Republic

The Making of a Banana Republic

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  • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

    @Jolly said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

    If you like abortion on demand, at any stage of pregnancy, vote for Biden

    I dont think this is true. Please provide info where he has advocate for on demand abortion at any stage.

    JollyJ Offline
    JollyJ Offline
    Jolly
    wrote on last edited by
    #15

    @taiwan_girl said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

    @Jolly said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

    If you like abortion on demand, at any stage of pregnancy, vote for Biden

    I dont think this is true. Please provide info where he has advocate for on demand abortion at any stage.

    His official position:

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/03/07/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-continues-the-fight-for-reproductive-freedom/

    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

    taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
    • JollyJ Jolly

      Secondly, maybe you were raised in different political waters, but politics IS a dirty, nasty business, no matter the form of government or the geographical location. As the stakes and power grow larger, so do the sordid side effects.

      But there is no alternative, no matter how you wish it.

      No, if you like taxes, vote for Biden. If you like unfettered immigration, vote for Biden. If you like abortion on demand, at any stage of pregnancy, vote for Biden. If you long to have some pervert in your daughter's school bathroom, vote for Biden. If you like judges like Jackson on SCOTUS, vote for Biden.

      Or sit on your hands and help Biden win through omission.

      89th8 Online
      89th8 Online
      89th
      wrote on last edited by
      #16

      @Jolly said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

      Secondly, maybe you were raised in different political waters, but politics IS a dirty, nasty business, no matter the form of government or the geographical location. As the stakes and power grow larger, so do the sordid side effects.

      But there is no alternative, no matter how you wish it.

      I disagree... yes politics is often nasty, but it doesn't have to be. If Biden is moldy cheese, then Trump is cheese covered with layers of grime. It makes recent Presidents and nominees look relatively clean... Obama, Romney, Bush, McCain, Gore, Clinton... Just because politics is often a dirty nasty business doesn't mean we should be fine with the moldy or grime-layered cheese.

      JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
      • 89th8 89th

        This is a new thing. I was happy with Presidents like Bush (and even Obama, despite some policies). I am not happy with a President who looks like he's shuffling to the brunch room at 2am or a President who refused to accept an election loss among many other stains on the office <Bill Clinton has entered the chat>.

        In our system you get candidates who can claw their way to the top of the electoral heap? Trump won because he was a celebrity who was funny and beat out the GOP field because of plurality, and beat Hillary because she's annoying as shit.

        And politics is not necessarily a nasty business with no alternative, many politicians were able to have long, healthy, not-nasty careers. Trump didn't drain the swamp, he rebranded it.

        If you don't like Trump or his policies, vote for Biden and live with the consequences.

        As with 2016 and 2020, I will not vote for either, and if Biden wins, that's probably better for the country than Trump's impact, and also helps DeSantis beat Kamala in 2028.

        HoraceH Offline
        HoraceH Offline
        Horace
        wrote on last edited by
        #17

        @89th said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

        As with 2016 and 2020, I will not vote for either, and if Biden wins, that's probably better for the country than Trump's impact, and also helps DeSantis beat Kamala in 2028.

        So you give the power of your vote to whomever cares more about the results than you do. It's a vote for not caring, which is ok, but rarely owned by those doing the voting. It's just an interesting perspective to care so much about the degradation represented by Trump, while casting your vote for not caring whether he wins or loses.

        Education is extremely important.

        89th8 1 Reply Last reply
        • 89th8 89th

          @Jolly said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

          Secondly, maybe you were raised in different political waters, but politics IS a dirty, nasty business, no matter the form of government or the geographical location. As the stakes and power grow larger, so do the sordid side effects.

          But there is no alternative, no matter how you wish it.

          I disagree... yes politics is often nasty, but it doesn't have to be. If Biden is moldy cheese, then Trump is cheese covered with layers of grime. It makes recent Presidents and nominees look relatively clean... Obama, Romney, Bush, McCain, Gore, Clinton... Just because politics is often a dirty nasty business doesn't mean we should be fine with the moldy or grime-layered cheese.

          JollyJ Offline
          JollyJ Offline
          Jolly
          wrote on last edited by
          #18

          @89th said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

          @Jolly said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

          Secondly, maybe you were raised in different political waters, but politics IS a dirty, nasty business, no matter the form of government or the geographical location. As the stakes and power grow larger, so do the sordid side effects.

          But there is no alternative, no matter how you wish it.

          I disagree... yes politics is often nasty, but it doesn't have to be. If Biden is moldy cheese, then Trump is cheese covered with layers of grime. It makes recent Presidents and nominees look relatively clean... Obama, Romney, Bush, McCain, Gore, Clinton... Just because politics is often a dirty nasty business doesn't mean we should be fine with the moldy or grime-layered cheese.

          Alonso, tell Sancho to hand you your lance.

          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

          1 Reply Last reply
          • George KG George K

            @taiwan_girl said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

            Please provide info where he has advocate for on demand abortion at any stage.

            You're asking the wrong question.

            Please provide info where he says that there should be a limit on abortion at any age.

            ETA: Ask any pro-abortion politician that question.

            HoraceH Offline
            HoraceH Offline
            Horace
            wrote on last edited by
            #19

            @George-K said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

            @taiwan_girl said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

            Please provide info where he has advocate for on demand abortion at any stage.

            You're asking the wrong question.

            Please provide info where he says that there should be a limit on abortion at any age.

            ETA: Ask any pro-abortion politician that question.

            Slippery slope politics. The politics of sniffs. You can't say a reasonable thing that sniffs of a direction to the other side. Funny how people are so dumb.

            Education is extremely important.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • HoraceH Offline
              HoraceH Offline
              Horace
              wrote on last edited by
              #20

              My take on Trump, which is coherent and brilliant as always, is that he makes clear the distinction between a politician as a worker hired to do a job, and a human as a symbol and role model to be venerated. If part of the message of Trump is that he is a contractor, hired by interests who think he is the man to do the job, rather than a spiritual leader, then that is ok.

              Education is extremely important.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • HoraceH Horace

                @89th said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

                As with 2016 and 2020, I will not vote for either, and if Biden wins, that's probably better for the country than Trump's impact, and also helps DeSantis beat Kamala in 2028.

                So you give the power of your vote to whomever cares more about the results than you do. It's a vote for not caring, which is ok, but rarely owned by those doing the voting. It's just an interesting perspective to care so much about the degradation represented by Trump, while casting your vote for not caring whether he wins or loses.

                89th8 Online
                89th8 Online
                89th
                wrote on last edited by
                #21

                @Horace said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

                @89th said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

                As with 2016 and 2020, I will not vote for either, and if Biden wins, that's probably better for the country than Trump's impact, and also helps DeSantis beat Kamala in 2028.

                So you give the power of your vote to whomever cares more about the results than you do. It's a vote for not caring, which is ok, but rarely owned by those doing the voting. It's just an interesting perspective to care so much about the degradation represented by Trump, while casting your vote for not caring whether he wins or loses.

                Yeah basically, or moreso it's a protest that I don't think either candidate is worthy (to me) to put my ballot in their box. If you FORCED me to pick, which is a fun thought experiment, I'd probably pick Trump just to get the bump in stock value and he's much more entertaining to watch on the news. Plus any SCOTUS vacancies...

                1 Reply Last reply
                • JollyJ Jolly

                  @taiwan_girl said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

                  @Jolly said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

                  If you like abortion on demand, at any stage of pregnancy, vote for Biden

                  I dont think this is true. Please provide info where he has advocate for on demand abortion at any stage.

                  His official position:

                  https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/03/07/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-continues-the-fight-for-reproductive-freedom/

                  taiwan_girlT Offline
                  taiwan_girlT Offline
                  taiwan_girl
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #22

                  @Jolly That is as indirect as the quote I played from President Trump. So then, I guess that both candidates support abortion at any time. 555

                  (And I think we both know that is not the case. Neither of them do.)

                  HoraceH George KG JollyJ 3 Replies Last reply
                  • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                    @Jolly That is as indirect as the quote I played from President Trump. So then, I guess that both candidates support abortion at any time. 555

                    (And I think we both know that is not the case. Neither of them do.)

                    HoraceH Offline
                    HoraceH Offline
                    Horace
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #23

                    @taiwan_girl said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

                    @Jolly That is as indirect as the quote I played from President Trump. So then, I guess that both candidates support abortion at any time. 555

                    (And I think we both know that is not the case. Neither of them do.)

                    How do you know? Do you think you could pry out of Biden's mouth that he is for restricting abortion at 7 months? Has anybody ever pried that from his mouth, or the mouths of any progressive Democrat?

                    Education is extremely important.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                      @Jolly That is as indirect as the quote I played from President Trump. So then, I guess that both candidates support abortion at any time. 555

                      (And I think we both know that is not the case. Neither of them do.)

                      George KG Offline
                      George KG Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #24

                      @taiwan_girl said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

                      (And I think we both know that is not the case. Neither of them do.)

                      There are dozens of videos in which a pro-abortion politician is asked whether s/he supports the practice of abortion up to the moment of birth. You'll be hard-pressed to find one that condemns it. The response is invariably, "The right of a woman to decide what is right for her body...blah, blah, blah."

                      If you don't support it, say it. Because if you don't say it, you tacitly support it.

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                      taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
                      • George KG George K

                        @taiwan_girl said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

                        (And I think we both know that is not the case. Neither of them do.)

                        There are dozens of videos in which a pro-abortion politician is asked whether s/he supports the practice of abortion up to the moment of birth. You'll be hard-pressed to find one that condemns it. The response is invariably, "The right of a woman to decide what is right for her body...blah, blah, blah."

                        If you don't support it, say it. Because if you don't say it, you tacitly support it.

                        taiwan_girlT Offline
                        taiwan_girlT Offline
                        taiwan_girl
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #25

                        @George-K said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

                        If you don't support it, say it. Because if you don't say it, you tacitly support it.

                        Agree. That is why the "arguement" works for President Trump also, based on his latest thoughts.

                        George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                        • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                          @George-K said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

                          If you don't support it, say it. Because if you don't say it, you tacitly support it.

                          Agree. That is why the "arguement" works for President Trump also, based on his latest thoughts.

                          George KG Offline
                          George KG Offline
                          George K
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #26

                          @taiwan_girl said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

                          That is why the "arguement" works for President Trump also, based on his latest thoughts.

                          My understanding is that he has "moderated" his opinion on the matter - setting an upper limit which is pretty consistent with what most European countries have.

                          Biden has not moderated.

                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                          taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
                          • George KG George K

                            @taiwan_girl said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

                            That is why the "arguement" works for President Trump also, based on his latest thoughts.

                            My understanding is that he has "moderated" his opinion on the matter - setting an upper limit which is pretty consistent with what most European countries have.

                            Biden has not moderated.

                            taiwan_girlT Offline
                            taiwan_girlT Offline
                            taiwan_girl
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #27

                            @George-K I do believe (and I think it is the obvious reality) that both candidates do not support on demand abortion at any time.

                            But it is not fair to say that President Biden is in favor of it and President Trump is against when the most recent statements from President Trump do not say that either.

                            It would be just as easy to say, that based on their recent statements (or lack of statements) both candidates have not spoken out against allowing abortion at any time.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                              @Jolly That is as indirect as the quote I played from President Trump. So then, I guess that both candidates support abortion at any time. 555

                              (And I think we both know that is not the case. Neither of them do.)

                              JollyJ Offline
                              JollyJ Offline
                              Jolly
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #28

                              @taiwan_girl said in The Making of a Banana Republic:

                              @Jolly That is as indirect as the quote I played from President Trump. So then, I guess that both candidates support abortion at any time. 555

                              (And I think we both know that is not the case. Neither of them do.)

                              Don't always take what a politician says or does at face value. Pay close attention to what they do or what they try to do.

                              Trump is pro-life. LuFin might argue with me because of Trump's softening on early term abortion, but that's pragmatic politics. If you can't get elected, you can't effect outcomes. Would Roe v. Wade have been overturned with Biden appointed justices?

                              Biden is pro-death. He mumbles about being Catholic, but Jesus taught that you would be known by your fruit. Biden has put no brakes on the most radical abortion advocates among his supporters. His Just-us Department has criminalized several forms of protest against abortion. Some leaders in his party have even talked about letting babies die after they are born. His White House position paper is very clear: Thou shalt not intervene at any point in a woman's pregnancy to stop the abortion process.

                              Now, what say you?

                              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

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