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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. How to play this

How to play this

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  • George KG Offline
    George KG Offline
    George K
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    I'm working on the Bach Bb Partita #1. The prelude and allemande are, pretty much under my fingers, as is MOST of the "A" section of the corrected.

    However, there are three measures that are giving me fits.

    In measure 13, what would be the best way to finger the trill and the subsequent notes?

    If I start the trill on the F, I would think that 3-2 would be the easiest way to trill that. Then, 4 on the last note of the measure, getting me ready to play the descending F major arpeggio in measure 14. Subsequent measures (14, 15) would follow this pattern.

    Any other, better, suggestions?

    Screenshot 2023-12-13 at 7.57.41 PM.png

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • LuFins DadL Offline
      LuFins DadL Offline
      LuFins Dad
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Just flip the left pedal on the Roland to pitch bend and hit it real fast while playing the E.

      The Brad

      1 Reply Last reply
      • kluursK Offline
        kluursK Offline
        kluurs
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        The Henle Urtext indicates a 2 for the e-natural. I haven't played this work, but I'll look through my library.

        George KG 1 Reply Last reply
        • KlausK Offline
          KlausK Offline
          Klaus
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          I suggest taking every second note of the trill, including the D, with the left hand (with some crossover). The RH then only has to repeat the E many times, for which I suggest a 5-4-3-2-1 fingering for additional speed.

          NNTTM.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • kluursK kluurs

            The Henle Urtext indicates a 2 for the e-natural. I haven't played this work, but I'll look through my library.

            George KG Offline
            George KG Offline
            George K
            wrote on last edited by George K
            #5

            @kluurs said in How to play this:

            The Henle Urtext indicates a 2 for the e-natural. I haven't played this work, but I'll look through my library.

            Screenshot 2023-12-14 at 5.53.38 AM.png

            Yeah, that's what my edition shows as well. My teacher has a different Henle edition - I'll have to ask her.

            IOW, start the trill on F, with 3?

            ETA: And thank you @Klaus , I'll give it a try. But it won't be at tempo - yet.

            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

            KlausK kluursK 2 Replies Last reply
            • AxtremusA Offline
              AxtremusA Offline
              Axtremus
              wrote on last edited by Axtremus
              #6

              The pattern is trill-turn-arpeggio. For my right hand, I would use 3-4 for the trills. Someone with longer/stronger pinky may go for 5-4. :man-shrugging:

              George KG 1 Reply Last reply
              • AxtremusA Axtremus

                The pattern is trill-turn-arpeggio. For my right hand, I would use 3-4 for the trills. Someone with longer/stronger pinky may go for 5-4. :man-shrugging:

                George KG Offline
                George KG Offline
                George K
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                @Axtremus said in How to play this:

                I would use 3-4 for the trills

                I've always had a hard time with those. Not enough practice, I suppose.

                "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • AxtremusA Offline
                  AxtremusA Offline
                  Axtremus
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Another option is to trill with a 3-1 then transition to 2-3-4.
                  Like, 1-3-1-3-1-3-1-2-3-4-3-2-1.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • George KG George K

                    @kluurs said in How to play this:

                    The Henle Urtext indicates a 2 for the e-natural. I haven't played this work, but I'll look through my library.

                    Screenshot 2023-12-14 at 5.53.38 AM.png

                    Yeah, that's what my edition shows as well. My teacher has a different Henle edition - I'll have to ask her.

                    IOW, start the trill on F, with 3?

                    ETA: And thank you @Klaus , I'll give it a try. But it won't be at tempo - yet.

                    KlausK Offline
                    KlausK Offline
                    Klaus
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    @George-K said in How to play this:

                    ETA: And thank you @Klaus , I'll give it a try. But it won't be at tempo - yet.

                    Don't give it a try. I was just messing with you 😛

                    George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                    • KlausK Klaus

                      @George-K said in How to play this:

                      ETA: And thank you @Klaus , I'll give it a try. But it won't be at tempo - yet.

                      Don't give it a try. I was just messing with you 😛

                      George KG Offline
                      George KG Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      @Klaus said in How to play this:

                      @George-K said in How to play this:

                      ETA: And thank you @Klaus , I'll give it a try. But it won't be at tempo - yet.

                      Don't give it a try.

                      Too late. I did.

                      Anyone know a good chiropractor in the Chicago area?

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • George KG George K

                        @kluurs said in How to play this:

                        The Henle Urtext indicates a 2 for the e-natural. I haven't played this work, but I'll look through my library.

                        Screenshot 2023-12-14 at 5.53.38 AM.png

                        Yeah, that's what my edition shows as well. My teacher has a different Henle edition - I'll have to ask her.

                        IOW, start the trill on F, with 3?

                        ETA: And thank you @Klaus , I'll give it a try. But it won't be at tempo - yet.

                        kluursK Offline
                        kluursK Offline
                        kluurs
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        @George-K said in How to play this:

                        @kluurs said in How to play this:

                        The Henle Urtext indicates a 2 for the e-natural. I haven't played this work, but I'll look through my library.

                        Screenshot 2023-12-14 at 5.53.38 AM.png

                        Yeah, that's what my edition shows as well. My teacher has a different Henle edition - I'll have to ask her.

                        IOW, start the trill on F, with 3?

                        Yes - exactly. One always starts the trill on the note above. See the edition below by Bax.

                        In Bach, those trills always start on the note

                        image.png
                        image.png

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • LuFins DadL Offline
                          LuFins DadL Offline
                          LuFins Dad
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          The best way to play it? On Spotify while drinking a scotch and discussing what fingering your would use for the trill…

                          The Brad

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • kluursK Offline
                            kluursK Offline
                            kluurs
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            I've added a couple of new things to me practicing repertoire. One is actively recording myself. i seem to focus more effectively when knowing I'm recording myself. it's not quite like having an audience - but a step above just playing and not caring as much about those uninvited mistakes. The second thing that is easier in this day and age is playing along with a recorded performance. In a couple of instances, I caught additional errant practices on my part. I see both my own and the professional performer's efforts in a new light. I've sometimes been irritated by an emphasis that the prof has taken. Of course, I've also got some ideas - places to consider nuances that I'd missed or hadn't considered. I use my iPhone, Apple Classical and bone conduction headphones for these efforts.

                            George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                            • kluursK kluurs

                              I've added a couple of new things to me practicing repertoire. One is actively recording myself. i seem to focus more effectively when knowing I'm recording myself. it's not quite like having an audience - but a step above just playing and not caring as much about those uninvited mistakes. The second thing that is easier in this day and age is playing along with a recorded performance. In a couple of instances, I caught additional errant practices on my part. I see both my own and the professional performer's efforts in a new light. I've sometimes been irritated by an emphasis that the prof has taken. Of course, I've also got some ideas - places to consider nuances that I'd missed or hadn't considered. I use my iPhone, Apple Classical and bone conduction headphones for these efforts.

                              George KG Offline
                              George KG Offline
                              George K
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              @kluurs said in How to play this:

                              bone conduction headphones for these efforts

                              You're happy with those?

                              I was wondering about replacing the cheapo headphones that came with my (I forget which) digital piano.

                              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • kluursK Offline
                                kluursK Offline
                                kluurs
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                I wouldn't use bone conduction with the digital. They're not as good a modestly priced over ear headphones - but they're perfect for listening to Charles Rosen playing the same Bach as I am. I can fit my good phones over my ears at the same time - and they work well with a real piano. I'm playing them at a lower volume - and seeing how in synch I am with the real performer. It is through such efforts that I strive to move from bad playing to inspired mediocrity, the highest level of performance I can hope to achieve.

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