Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness
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@jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
Or to reconcile with the many lifelong GOP stalwarts who couldn’t pull a lever for him. Including at least 4 here.
Why would I need to go to any pains to reconcile that? People find Trump viscerally revolting because he sniffs low class. That sort of visceral revulsion is a red-line issue for some. I've explained that here at length. It's far from inscrutable to me.
Trump definitely started a movement, and it was a fairly radical departure from the GOP that preceded it.
His personality is a radical departure from GOP politicians before him. The movements he started were mostly in reaction against him, on the left.
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@Catseye3 said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
@Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
No, that's because of the weaponized cancellation of anybody who questions whether oppression grants ultimate authority in cultural/political discussions.
Which is saying the same thing in Horace-speak.
No, it wasn't the same thing. Nobody is silent against the cancel mob because the cancel mob is too stupid. It's because the cancel mob is too dangerous.
@Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
No, it wasn't the same thing. Nobody is silent against the cancel mob because the cancel mob is too stupid. It's because the cancel mob is too dangerous.
How about both?
As for the dangerous, yes, they are. But I can't accept that a movement this goofball can last forever. Like Phibbs (?) said, they're good at tearing down, not so much at building back up. And conditions don't remain in torn-down status indefinitely.
I remain enough of a Randist to believe that in the end, above all, competence must prevail. I want to say to these people: If you want the goodies, do the work. Clear the starry-eyed crap out of your vision, study your human history, and accept that rising to the top demands more than painting big yellow letters on the pavement. Didn’t nobody promise you a rose garden, babe, and ain’t nobody gonna carry you but so far, for so long.
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@jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
Except not. If you criticize and make fun of both Trumpism and wokeness you don’t make too many friends. Look at some of my threads next door criticizing wokeness -you can practically hear people sputter and point. And here, look at the grief I get from you for refusing that orange pill.
I think the word Trumpism is a convenient one used to integrate anybody who prefers Trump to his current political opposition, with Trump himself. Wokeness on the other hand is a blatant large-scale cultural movement, permeating every aspect of this culture we all have to exist in.
@Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
@jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
Except not. If you criticize and make fun of both Trumpism and wokeness you don’t make too many friends. Look at some of my threads next door criticizing wokeness -you can practically hear people sputter and point. And here, look at the grief I get from you for refusing that orange pill.
I think the word Trumpism is a convenient one used to integrate anybody who prefers Trump to his current political opposition, with Trump himself. Wokeness on the other hand is a blatant large-scale cultural movement, permeating every aspect of this culture we all have to exist in.
This resonates with me. Not voting is a big contender and just praying wokeness burns itself out.
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Now about the article: The one thing that leaves me a little dissatisfied with it is that I think most "woke" people aren't very familiar with critical theory. I have a hard time imagining that all those adolescent ultra-progressives read works from the Frankfurt school or Foucault.
So, while it may be true that "critical theory" has been the origin of the "woke" philosophy, it seems to me that there is a narrative that justifies being "woke" that doesn't require familiarity with critical theory.
@Klaus said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
Now about the article: The one thing that leaves me a little dissatisfied with it is that I think most "woke" people aren't very familiar with critical theory. I have a hard time imagining that all those adolescent ultra-progressives read works from the Frankfurt school or Foucault.
So, while it may be true that "critical theory" has been the origin of the "woke" philosophy, it seems to me that there is a narrative that justifies being "woke" that doesn't require familiarity with critical theory.
All three of my girls went to Oregon State University. My oldest (housing studies) and youngest (communications) have responded with much woke-speak following George Floyd and BLM protests. My middle (forestry) is much more "hard work, good choices, personal responsibility". It has been a bit difficult to navigate these waters with reasoned discussion.
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@Klaus said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
Now about the article: The one thing that leaves me a little dissatisfied with it is that I think most "woke" people aren't very familiar with critical theory. I have a hard time imagining that all those adolescent ultra-progressives read works from the Frankfurt school or Foucault.
So, while it may be true that "critical theory" has been the origin of the "woke" philosophy, it seems to me that there is a narrative that justifies being "woke" that doesn't require familiarity with critical theory.
All three of my girls went to Oregon State University. My oldest (housing studies) and youngest (communications) have responded with much woke-speak following George Floyd and BLM protests. My middle (forestry) is much more "hard work, good choices, personal responsibility". It has been a bit difficult to navigate these waters with reasoned discussion.
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@Klaus said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
Now about the article: The one thing that leaves me a little dissatisfied with it is that I think most "woke" people aren't very familiar with critical theory. I have a hard time imagining that all those adolescent ultra-progressives read works from the Frankfurt school or Foucault.
So, while it may be true that "critical theory" has been the origin of the "woke" philosophy, it seems to me that there is a narrative that justifies being "woke" that doesn't require familiarity with critical theory.
All three of my girls went to Oregon State University. My oldest (housing studies) and youngest (communications) have responded with much woke-speak following George Floyd and BLM protests. My middle (forestry) is much more "hard work, good choices, personal responsibility". It has been a bit difficult to navigate these waters with reasoned discussion.
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Too complicated for me.
As I become older, I sometimes appreciate the reasons Stalin had for executing the intellectuals...
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Too complicated for me.
As I become older, I sometimes appreciate the reasons Stalin had for executing the intellectuals...
@Jolly said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
Too complicated for me.
As I become older, I sometimes appreciate the reasons Stalin had for executing the intellectuals...
Because he was a psychopathic peasant?
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@Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
I expect we will all be safe from a purge of intellectuals.
You might want to hide that pretentious tea you're so fond of.
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@Kincaid Hi Kincaid!
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@Kincaid said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
It has been a bit difficult to navigate these waters with reasoned discussion.
Well the reasonable discussion is probably easier with your middle daughter.
@89th said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
@Kincaid said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
It has been a bit difficult to navigate these waters with reasoned discussion.
Well the reasonable discussion is probably easier with your middle daughter.
LOL she is almost apolitical though haha.
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Too complicated for me.
As I become older, I sometimes appreciate the reasons Stalin had for executing the intellectuals...
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It is a concern, given how many parents I've spoken to that tell me their kids come home from college, smarter than everyone else in their family, and confidently "woke."
As if brainwashed, but don't know it.
Just "educated."
And all that and more, for only $120K!
Thanks, Higher Ed!! -
@89th said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
@Kincaid said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
It has been a bit difficult to navigate these waters with reasoned discussion.
Well the reasonable discussion is probably easier with your middle daughter.
LOL she is almost apolitical though haha.
@Kincaid said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
@89th said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
@Kincaid said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
It has been a bit difficult to navigate these waters with reasoned discussion.
Well the reasonable discussion is probably easier with your middle daughter.
LOL she is almost apolitical though haha.
Even better. Seriously. People care about politics way too much. Rarely effects my life other than maybe tax rates, even then it’s just money.
