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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness

Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness

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  • LarryL Offline
    LarryL Offline
    Larry
    wrote on last edited by Larry
    #36

    It doesnt seem to have occurred to Jon that what he sees as "tribalism" from Horace is merely a normal and healthy ability to tell the difference between shit and shinola, and it is Jon's TDS that's standing in the way of him having that ability himself.

    But of course I'm just a poor old Injun from the South so what would I know...

    1 Reply Last reply
    • 89th8 89th

      fight

      LarryL Offline
      LarryL Offline
      Larry
      wrote on last edited by
      #37

      @89th said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

      fight

      Not until I start grinning and calling someone Richard. THEN it's on....... hahaha

      1 Reply Last reply
      • HoraceH Horace

        And by the way, the reason you remember what I allegedly wrote so vividly, is because it confirmed your bias that there's something psychologically wrong with Trump supporters. It's been your ground truth about my Trump support ever since, and from that seed of contempt grew your comfortable total dismissal of me as a tribal pill swallower. It's all very lazy of you.

        jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by
        #38

        @Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

        And by the way, the reason you remember what I allegedly wrote so vividly, is because it confirmed ....

        This is an interesting sentence. You're conceding that reading such a statement from you would stick in my memory, while at the same time casting doubt on it. Seems like you should pick one?

        Anyway, I'll give you the much - we all have lots of motivations for things we do, many if not most unknown to us. The one a person reports at a particular time isn't the whole picture. But it contains information nevertheless.

        Only non-witches get due process.

        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
        1 Reply Last reply
        • HoraceH Offline
          HoraceH Offline
          Horace
          wrote on last edited by
          #39

          I think you took something out of full context, leaped at a few words that fit with something that you want to believe. Something that makes the world simpler, more comprehensible and self-serving. This is how the human mind operates. I am not immune from that, but I try to have some humility around that.

          Education is extremely important.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • HoraceH Offline
            HoraceH Offline
            Horace
            wrote on last edited by
            #40

            But that said, and as I mentioned above, everybody thinks some selective destruction is for the best sometimes. It is not categorically insane, while your convenient framing of what I said was meant to be categorically insane.

            Education is extremely important.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ Online
              jon-nycJ Online
              jon-nyc
              wrote on last edited by
              #41

              In our populist movements the select statement is getting much too broad.

              Only non-witches get due process.

              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
              1 Reply Last reply
              • HoraceH Offline
                HoraceH Offline
                Horace
                wrote on last edited by
                #42

                Yes I have often bemoaned the mindless destructive impulses of the left, cloaked in righteousness, that have become more and more prevalent in the Trump era.

                Education is extremely important.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #43

                  Yes you have. You are quite good at recognizing the shortcomings of the outgroup.

                  Only non-witches get due process.

                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                  HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                  • Catseye3C Offline
                    Catseye3C Offline
                    Catseye3
                    wrote on last edited by Catseye3
                    #44

                    Moving on down in the article, in any discussion, Sullivan writes, "An oppressed person’s word is always the last one."

                    Is that because the other is struck dumb by the surreal stupidity with which he is confronted? He stands there, mouth agape, with nothing to say, while the SJW struts off, satisfied at having silenced another disgusting heteronormal.

                    Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

                    HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                      Yes you have. You are quite good at recognizing the shortcomings of the outgroup.

                      HoraceH Offline
                      HoraceH Offline
                      Horace
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #45

                      @jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                      Yes you have. You are quite good at recognizing the shortcomings of the outgroup.

                      Thanks jon. And you're good at seeming like the sort of person who doesn't take sides.

                      Education is extremely important.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • Catseye3C Catseye3

                        Moving on down in the article, in any discussion, Sullivan writes, "An oppressed person’s word is always the last one."

                        Is that because the other is struck dumb by the surreal stupidity with which he is confronted? He stands there, mouth agape, with nothing to say, while the SJW struts off, satisfied at having silenced another disgusting heteronormal.

                        HoraceH Offline
                        HoraceH Offline
                        Horace
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #46

                        @Catseye3 said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                        Moving on down in the article, in any discussion, Sullivan writes, "An oppressed person’s word is always the last one."

                        Is that because the other is struck dumb by the surreal stupidity with which he is confronted?

                        No, that's because of the weaponized cancellation of anybody who questions whether oppression grants ultimate authority in cultural/political discussions.

                        Education is extremely important.

                        Catseye3C 1 Reply Last reply
                        • Catseye3C Catseye3

                          I've been snooting this article, not wishing to know nuttin' about no roots of wokeness (the flowering of it is hideous enough), but I finally decided that since Jon is not in the habit of posting useless bullshit, I'd better give it a look-see.

                          The Pluckrose etc book theorizes that "The entire concept of reason—whether the Enlightenment version or even the ancient Socratic understanding—is a myth designed to serve the interests of those in power, and therefore deserves to be undermined and 'problematized’ whenever possible."

                          This comes as close to philosophical obscenity as is possible to get. Not to mention that people who actually utilize a ghastly non-word like 'problematized' deserve to go before a firing squad.

                          Not even to be offered a last pre-fusillade cigarette, either. I know, this is harsh, but there are sins of usage too appalling to be permitted and must be stamped out without mercy. They scorch the eye and horrify the brain. They cross far over a line which may not be crossed in even a semi-literate society.

                          Rats, I seem to have digressed somewhat from the article. Though I hardly ever do that, I think I'll stop here and go back and finish reading, with thanks to Jon. Loving Andrew Sullivan. Is he married, do you know? Asking for a friend.

                          I like this, too: "Most normal people have never heard of this [critical] theory . . . that is nonetheless changing the very words we speak and write and the very rationale of the institutions integral to liberal democracy." (Italics mine.)

                          Doctor PhibesD Online
                          Doctor PhibesD Online
                          Doctor Phibes
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #47

                          @Catseye3 said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                          Rats, I seem to have digressed somewhat from the article. Though I hardly ever do that, I think I'll stop here and go back and finish reading, with thanks to Jon. Loving Andrew Sullivan. Is he married, do you know? Asking for a friend.

                          He is, and he's gay. And English. One out of three ain't bad 😬

                          I was only joking

                          Catseye3C 1 Reply Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nyc
                            wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                            #48

                            @Horace

                            Except not. If you criticize and make fun of both Trumpism and wokeness you don’t make too many friends. Look at some of my threads next door criticizing wokeness -you can practically hear people sputter and point. And here, look at the grief I get from you for refusing that orange pill.

                            Only non-witches get due process.

                            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                            HoraceH Doctor PhibesD 2 Replies Last reply
                            • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                              @Catseye3 said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                              Rats, I seem to have digressed somewhat from the article. Though I hardly ever do that, I think I'll stop here and go back and finish reading, with thanks to Jon. Loving Andrew Sullivan. Is he married, do you know? Asking for a friend.

                              He is, and he's gay. And English. One out of three ain't bad 😬

                              Catseye3C Offline
                              Catseye3C Offline
                              Catseye3
                              wrote on last edited by Catseye3
                              #49

                              @Doctor-Phibes said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                              He is, and he's gay.

                              Oh, boogersnot.

                              Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                @Horace

                                Except not. If you criticize and make fun of both Trumpism and wokeness you don’t make too many friends. Look at some of my threads next door criticizing wokeness -you can practically hear people sputter and point. And here, look at the grief I get from you for refusing that orange pill.

                                HoraceH Offline
                                HoraceH Offline
                                Horace
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #50

                                @jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                                @Horace

                                Except not. If you criticize and make fun of both Trumpism and wokeness you don’t make too many friends. Look at some of my threads next door criticizing wokeness -you can practically hear people sputter and point. And here, look at the grief I get from you for refusing that orange pill.

                                I think the word Trumpism is a convenient one used to integrate anybody who prefers Trump to his current political opposition, with Trump himself. Wokeness on the other hand is a blatant large-scale cultural movement, permeating every aspect of this culture we all have to exist in.

                                Education is extremely important.

                                L 1 Reply Last reply
                                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                  @Horace

                                  Except not. If you criticize and make fun of both Trumpism and wokeness you don’t make too many friends. Look at some of my threads next door criticizing wokeness -you can practically hear people sputter and point. And here, look at the grief I get from you for refusing that orange pill.

                                  Doctor PhibesD Online
                                  Doctor PhibesD Online
                                  Doctor Phibes
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #51

                                  @jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                                  @Horace

                                  Except not. If you criticize and make fun of both Trumpism and wokeness you don’t make too many friends. Look at some of my threads next door criticizing wokeness -you can practically hear people sputter and point. And here, look at the grief I get from you for refusing that orange pill.

                                  If you don't fit in a handy little compartment it upsets people. You need to either embrace The Woke or The Orange.

                                  I was only joking

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • HoraceH Offline
                                    HoraceH Offline
                                    Horace
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #52

                                    But neither you nor jon display much willingness to differentiate support for Trump over his political opposition, from some caricatured devotion to everything he thinks and says. Which is exactly an issue of fitting people into compartments.

                                    Education is extremely important.

                                    jon-nycJ Doctor PhibesD 2 Replies Last reply
                                    • jon-nycJ Online
                                      jon-nycJ Online
                                      jon-nyc
                                      wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                      #53

                                      @Horace

                                      I think the word Trumpism is a convenient one used to integrate anybody who prefers Trump to his current political opposition, with Trump himself.

                                      That’s a hard view to reconcile with the 2016 primary.

                                      Only non-witches get due process.

                                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • jon-nycJ Online
                                        jon-nycJ Online
                                        jon-nyc
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #54

                                        Or to reconcile with the many lifelong GOP stalwarts who couldn’t pull a lever for him. Including at least 4 here.

                                        Trump definitely started a movement, and it was a fairly radical departure from the GOP that preceded it.

                                        Only non-witches get due process.

                                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                        HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • HoraceH Horace

                                          But neither you nor jon display much willingness to differentiate support for Trump over his political opposition, from some caricatured devotion to everything he thinks and says. Which is exactly an issue of fitting people into compartments.

                                          jon-nycJ Online
                                          jon-nycJ Online
                                          jon-nyc
                                          wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                          #55

                                          @Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                                          But neither you nor jon display much willingness to differentiate support for Trump over his political opposition, from some caricatured devotion to everything he thinks and says.

                                          Nonsense. Surely one of the reasons we post his most ridiculous tweets here is to watch you guys squirm a little.

                                          Only non-witches get due process.

                                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                          HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
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