Chauvin shivved
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@George-K said in Chauvin shivved:
@Jolly said in Chauvin shivved:
SS trait
I wasn't aware of that. I wonder if that contributed to his demise.
Possible.
While findings are consistent post-mortem for a person with SS trait, I have seen sickle cells on peripheral smears of patients with the trait. Add in oxygen deprivation for whatever reason, and I could see enough cells sickling to have some impact.
I think it's a really good question that was not explored sufficiently.
@Jolly said in Chauvin shivved:
I have seen sickle cells on peripheral smears of patients with the trait. Add in oxygen deprivation for whatever reason,
This is a concern.
Using tourniquets during orthopedic surgery in sickle-cell trait patients has always been controversial, for fear that sickling can occur distal to the tourniquet, causing a cascade of sickling elsewhere on restoration of blood flow.
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Google tells me respiratory depression or even arrest is a fentanyl overdose symptom. Very, very last person who’s neck you should put your weight on.
The more you guys post the more I’m starting to be convinced that the verdict was correct.
@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:
Google tells me respiratory depression or even arrest is a fentanyl overdose symptom. Very, very last person who’s neck you should put your weight on.
The more you guys post the more I’m starting to be convinced that the verdict was correct.
Floyd was a pretty good-sized guy and high as a kite. While I don't approve of the neck hold, tell me exactly how you handle someone like that, when they're resisting arrest?
Life ain't the movies. Fighting down a crazy can and will get you hurt. Badly. During my career at St. Elsewhere, we had a security guard stabbed, another suffer a broken leg and ankle and a maintenance guy get his jaw broken while trying to help in a Code White.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:
Google tells me respiratory depression or even arrest is a fentanyl overdose symptom. Very, very last person who’s neck you should put your weight on.
The more you guys post the more I’m starting to be convinced that the verdict was correct.
Yes you are performative with these things on occasion. Who can forget your disappointment that Jerry Jones didn't apologize for the gathering he attended as a teenager? I understand that there is less cognitive dissonance the more one can mold oneself into a true believer. Meanwhile, those of us without socially obligated belief systems to attend to, might have much more understanding of the cops' perspective, and might not be inclined to hold them to standards that make sense with perfect hindsight, and google searches.
@Horace said in Chauvin shivved:
@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:
Meanwhile, those of us without socially obligated belief systems to attend to, might have much more understanding of the cops' perspective, and might not be inclined to hold them to standards that make sense with perfect hindsight, and google searches.I am socially obligated to believe that cops are trained to recognize drug overdose symptoms for extremely common street drugs and don't need to google.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
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@Horace said in Chauvin shivved:
@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:
Meanwhile, those of us without socially obligated belief systems to attend to, might have much more understanding of the cops' perspective, and might not be inclined to hold them to standards that make sense with perfect hindsight, and google searches.I am socially obligated to believe that cops are trained to recognize drug overdose symptoms for extremely common street drugs and don't need to google.
@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:
I am socially obligated to believe that cops are trained to recognize drug overdose symptoms for extremely common street drugs and don't need to google.
Bullshit.
Look at all the "fentanyl-exposed" cops who have hysterical reactions and end up in ERs after naloxone "treatment."
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I’m trying to relate your response to my post and am having trouble.
You’re saying that cops are not trained to recognize fentanyl OD? And your evidence is that they end up getting exposed themselves?
Seems to me that wouldn’t have to happen that many times before departments started warning them what the signs are.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
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@Horace said in Chauvin shivved:
@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:
Meanwhile, those of us without socially obligated belief systems to attend to, might have much more understanding of the cops' perspective, and might not be inclined to hold them to standards that make sense with perfect hindsight, and google searches.I am socially obligated to believe that cops are trained to recognize drug overdose symptoms for extremely common street drugs and don't need to google.
@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:
@Horace said in Chauvin shivved:
@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:
Meanwhile, those of us without socially obligated belief systems to attend to, might have much more understanding of the cops' perspective, and might not be inclined to hold them to standards that make sense with perfect hindsight, and google searches.I am socially obligated to believe that cops are trained to recognize drug overdose symptoms for extremely common street drugs and don't need to google.
To be clear, in your belief system, cops who recognize drug induced altered states in people they are trying to subdue, should, in those moments, choose from a different set of options, depending on their diagnosis and the potential physical complications it implies? Even when the person is clearly not physically incapacitated. Interesting. You are among the millions of people with outsized empathy for one side of police interactions, and minimal empathy for the other side. It calls into question whether empathy as a general concept is really at play here.
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I’m trying to relate your response to my post and am having trouble.
You’re saying that cops are not trained to recognize fentanyl OD? And your evidence is that they end up getting exposed themselves?
Seems to me that wouldn’t have to happen that many times before departments started warning them what the signs are.
@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:
You’re saying that cops are not trained to recognize fentanyl OD? And your evidence is that they end up getting exposed themselves?
I'm saying that cops that are supposedly trained to recognize common drug ODs, specifically fentanyl, are subject to not recognizing that it is harmless when you come in contact with it. As I've said in the past, somehow, i managed to survive 40 years of physical contact with the stuff. Cops should know better.
Link to videoThis is NOT an opiate overdose, and videos like this continue to spread so-called "training" about the dangers of fentanyl.
Link to video -
Sorry, put me on Jon’s side on this. Chauvin didn’t just cross the line, he obliterated it. And police must be held to higher standards when they do cross the line.
The Brad
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Sorry, put me on Jon’s side on this. Chauvin didn’t just cross the line, he obliterated it. And police must be held to higher standards when they do cross the line.
@LuFins-Dad said in Chauvin shivved:
Sorry, put me on Jon’s side on this. Chauvin didn’t just cross the line, he obliterated it. And police must be held to higher standards when they do cross the line.
Second degree murder? Third degree murder?
Police should be held to a high standard, but they should also be charged and prosecuted fairly.
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@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:
Google tells me respiratory depression or even arrest is a fentanyl overdose symptom. Very, very last person who’s neck you should put your weight on.
The more you guys post the more I’m starting to be convinced that the verdict was correct.
Floyd was a pretty good-sized guy and high as a kite. While I don't approve of the neck hold, tell me exactly how you handle someone like that, when they're resisting arrest?
Life ain't the movies. Fighting down a crazy can and will get you hurt. Badly. During my career at St. Elsewhere, we had a security guard stabbed, another suffer a broken leg and ankle and a maintenance guy get his jaw broken while trying to help in a Code White.
@Jolly said in Chauvin shivved:
@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:
Google tells me respiratory depression or even arrest is a fentanyl overdose symptom. Very, very last person who’s neck you should put your weight on.
The more you guys post the more I’m starting to be convinced that the verdict was correct.
Floyd was a pretty good-sized guy and high as a kite. While I don't approve of the neck hold, tell me exactly how you handle someone like that, when they're resisting arrest?
The dude was already handcuffed face down when Chauvin put his weight on his neck for 9 solid minutes.
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@Jolly said in Chauvin shivved:
@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:
Google tells me respiratory depression or even arrest is a fentanyl overdose symptom. Very, very last person who’s neck you should put your weight on.
The more you guys post the more I’m starting to be convinced that the verdict was correct.
Floyd was a pretty good-sized guy and high as a kite. While I don't approve of the neck hold, tell me exactly how you handle someone like that, when they're resisting arrest?
The dude was already handcuffed face down when Chauvin put his weight on his neck for 9 solid minutes.
@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:
@Jolly said in Chauvin shivved:
@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:
Google tells me respiratory depression or even arrest is a fentanyl overdose symptom. Very, very last person who’s neck you should put your weight on.
The more you guys post the more I’m starting to be convinced that the verdict was correct.
Floyd was a pretty good-sized guy and high as a kite. While I don't approve of the neck hold, tell me exactly how you handle someone like that, when they're resisting arrest?
The dude was already handcuffed face down when Chauvin put his weight on his neck for 9 solid minutes.
So you believe Chauvin intended to kill Floyd? I understand that whenever anybody does something stupid or careless that causes the death of another person, the consequences skyrocket. But where is the line for 1st degree murder?
We have a very similar case coming up with Daniel Penny, I guess we'll all have our chance to throw our lots in with this or that tribally meaningful conclusion.
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I'm not sure I understand.
Can one be guilty of 3 murders in the death of one person?
In early 2021, Chauvin was put on trial for unintentional second-degree murder, third-degree murder, and second-degree manslaughter of Floyd before a jury in the Minnesota Fourth Judicial District Court. On April 20, he was convicted on all of the charges.
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I don’t think Chauvin intended to kill him, at the time I thought - indeed worried - that the DA had overcharged the case (worried because I knew cities would burn in case of acquittal). But I always thought he over did it to the point of criminality and as you guys bring these additional facts to my attention it seems a slam dunk for negligent homicide.
I have a lot of sympathy for Penny, it will be a very fact intensive case but my going in position was against the indictment.
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I can agree with a negligent homicide verdict.
Second degree murder is a couple of bridges too far.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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From my inbox today, from Glenn Loury, a personal friend who often sends me letters:
Link to videoIn the documentary What Killed Michael Brown?, Shelby Steele coins the term “poetic truth” in order to describe the persistence of the myth that Michael Brown was “executed” by Darren Wilson. Steele calls poetic truth, “a distortion of the actual truth that we use to sue for leverage and power in the world. It is a partisan version of reality, a storyline that we put forward to build our case.” Poetic truth “thrives more by coercion than reason,” accusing all who dispute it of complicity with the ineradicably racist system that governs and has always governed the country.
That Darren Wilson executed Michael Brown is one such poetic truth; that Derek Chauvin murdered George Floyd is, I believe, another. Despite the aptness of Steele’s term, poetic truth is no truth at all, nor is it particularly poetic. It is power masquerading as fact, brute force in the guise of knowledge. The cities that burned across the country following Floyd’s death were expressions of such a truth, as was the incarceration of the police officers convicted of a crime they did not commit. The scramble to implement race-based policies and quotas, to elevate self-appointed gurus of “antiracism,” and to proclaim, against all evidence, the unreconstructed nature of American society were all tendrils of the same truth, which still threatens to assert itself whenever an incident emerges that fits its preferred pattern.
The cost in life, limb, and property incurred by this particular poetic truth would be bad enough. But I fear that, in the aftermath, when the embers have cooled and Chauvin’s name has been forgotten by everyone save his family, the true danger of the poetic truth of George Floyd will come to fruition. It will be written in books alongside uncontroversial facts, treated with the passive acceptance of any other historical occurrence, and absorbed into the storehouse of common knowledge that binds us as a culture. The deep epistemic corruption at the heart of the affair will become, if it goes unchallenged, imperceptible to future generations, simply more evidence that the world is as the poetic truth has determined it to be.
Perhaps it’s fitting, then, that YouTube has deemed this clip from my latest conversation with John McWhorter inappropriate for anyone under the age of 18. Unless you’re 18 or older and logged into your YouTube account, you won’t be able to view it. If you see fit, please share it widely, as the algorithm won’t be doing it any favors. My team considered taking it down and hosting it on Substack instead. But I think it’s better that it stays as it is. Let it bear that mark of censoriousness, the better to remind us that the goal of truth’s suppression is not condemnation but forgetting.
Education is extremely important.
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From my inbox today, from Glenn Loury, a personal friend who often sends me letters:
Link to videoIn the documentary What Killed Michael Brown?, Shelby Steele coins the term “poetic truth” in order to describe the persistence of the myth that Michael Brown was “executed” by Darren Wilson. Steele calls poetic truth, “a distortion of the actual truth that we use to sue for leverage and power in the world. It is a partisan version of reality, a storyline that we put forward to build our case.” Poetic truth “thrives more by coercion than reason,” accusing all who dispute it of complicity with the ineradicably racist system that governs and has always governed the country.
That Darren Wilson executed Michael Brown is one such poetic truth; that Derek Chauvin murdered George Floyd is, I believe, another. Despite the aptness of Steele’s term, poetic truth is no truth at all, nor is it particularly poetic. It is power masquerading as fact, brute force in the guise of knowledge. The cities that burned across the country following Floyd’s death were expressions of such a truth, as was the incarceration of the police officers convicted of a crime they did not commit. The scramble to implement race-based policies and quotas, to elevate self-appointed gurus of “antiracism,” and to proclaim, against all evidence, the unreconstructed nature of American society were all tendrils of the same truth, which still threatens to assert itself whenever an incident emerges that fits its preferred pattern.
The cost in life, limb, and property incurred by this particular poetic truth would be bad enough. But I fear that, in the aftermath, when the embers have cooled and Chauvin’s name has been forgotten by everyone save his family, the true danger of the poetic truth of George Floyd will come to fruition. It will be written in books alongside uncontroversial facts, treated with the passive acceptance of any other historical occurrence, and absorbed into the storehouse of common knowledge that binds us as a culture. The deep epistemic corruption at the heart of the affair will become, if it goes unchallenged, imperceptible to future generations, simply more evidence that the world is as the poetic truth has determined it to be.
Perhaps it’s fitting, then, that YouTube has deemed this clip from my latest conversation with John McWhorter inappropriate for anyone under the age of 18. Unless you’re 18 or older and logged into your YouTube account, you won’t be able to view it. If you see fit, please share it widely, as the algorithm won’t be doing it any favors. My team considered taking it down and hosting it on Substack instead. But I think it’s better that it stays as it is. Let it bear that mark of censoriousness, the better to remind us that the goal of truth’s suppression is not condemnation but forgetting.
@Horace said in Chauvin shivved:
The cost in life, limb, and property incurred by this particular poetic truth would be bad enough. But I fear that, in the aftermath, when the embers have cooled and Chauvin’s name has been forgotten by everyone save his family, the true danger of the poetic truth of George Floyd will come to fruition. It will be written in books alongside uncontroversial facts, treated with the passive acceptance of any other historical occurrence, and absorbed into the storehouse of common knowledge that binds us as a culture. The deep epistemic corruption at the heart of the affair will become, if it goes unchallenged, imperceptible to future generations, simply more evidence that the world is as the poetic truth has determined it to be.
This well captures the insidiousness of the "right side of history" folks. The implication of the term is that one is sacrificing current reputation to speak a truth that will be vindicated from a future perspective, as virtuous. But in fact, they are speaking a socially advantageous falsehood, which will be viewed by historians in the future as truth, because they are writing the falsehood into history.
Well, maybe serious academic historians will still know the truth, but popular culture history will not. And popular culture history is unequivocally the history everybody is concerned with being on the right side of.
Education is extremely important.
