Chauvin shivved

[George K]

@Jolly said in Chauvin shivved:

SS trait

I wasn't aware of that. I wonder if that contributed to his demise.

[Jolly]

@George-K said in Chauvin shivved:

@Jolly said in Chauvin shivved:

SS trait

I wasn't aware of that. I wonder if that contributed to his demise.

Possible.

While findings are consistent post-mortem for a person with SS trait, I have seen sickle cells on peripheral smears of patients with the trait. Add in oxygen deprivation for whatever reason, and I could see enough cells sickling to have some impact.

I think it's a really good question that was not explored sufficiently.

[Horace]

@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:

@Horace said in Chauvin shivved:

There is a documentary just released. Among the revelations is that Floyd had been saying he "couldn't breathe" even while he was standing up.

That seems to me a fact that would have worsened the case against Chauvin. The last thing you should do to someone who can’t breathe is put your weight on his neck.

The point was that it was a meaningless noise coming out of his mouth. If you watch the first few minutes of the documentary you can get a taste for how incoherent he was.

[jon-nyc]

Google tells me respiratory depression or even arrest is a fentanyl overdose symptom. Very, very last person who’s neck you should put your weight on.

The more you guys post the more I’m starting to be convinced that the verdict was correct.

[Mik]

I did not see a cause of death on the autopsy, despite a plethora of information. So detailed.

[Horace]

@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:

Google tells me respiratory depression or even arrest is a fentanyl overdose symptom. Very, very last person who’s neck you should put your weight on.

The more you guys post the more I’m starting to be convinced that the verdict was correct.

Yes you are performative with these things on occasion. Who can forget your disappointment that Jerry Jones didn't apologize for the gathering he attended as a teenager? I understand that there is less cognitive dissonance the more one can mold oneself into a true believer. Meanwhile, those of us without socially obligated belief systems to attend to, might have much more understanding of the cops' perspective, and might not be inclined to hold them to standards that make sense with perfect hindsight, and google searches.

[George K]

@Jolly said in Chauvin shivved:

I have seen sickle cells on peripheral smears of patients with the trait. Add in oxygen deprivation for whatever reason,

This is a concern.

Using tourniquets during orthopedic surgery in sickle-cell trait patients has always been controversial, for fear that sickling can occur distal to the tourniquet, causing a cascade of sickling elsewhere on restoration of blood flow.

[Jolly]

@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:

Google tells me respiratory depression or even arrest is a fentanyl overdose symptom. Very, very last person who’s neck you should put your weight on.

The more you guys post the more I’m starting to be convinced that the verdict was correct.

Floyd was a pretty good-sized guy and high as a kite. While I don't approve of the neck hold, tell me exactly how you handle someone like that, when they're resisting arrest?

Life ain't the movies. Fighting down a crazy can and will get you hurt. Badly. During my career at St. Elsewhere, we had a security guard stabbed, another suffer a broken leg and ankle and a maintenance guy get his jaw broken while trying to help in a Code White.

[Horace]

Another part of the documentary shows that a shoulder kneel is actually in the police training manual. It gets less defensible at the neck.

[jon-nyc]

@Horace said in Chauvin shivved:

@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:
Meanwhile, those of us without socially obligated belief systems to attend to, might have much more understanding of the cops' perspective, and might not be inclined to hold them to standards that make sense with perfect hindsight, and google searches.

I am socially obligated to believe that cops are trained to recognize drug overdose symptoms for extremely common street drugs and don't need to google.

[George K]

@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:

I am socially obligated to believe that cops are trained to recognize drug overdose symptoms for extremely common street drugs and don't need to google.

Bullshit.

Look at all the "fentanyl-exposed" cops who have hysterical reactions and end up in ERs after naloxone "treatment."

[jon-nyc]

I’m trying to relate your response to my post and am having trouble.

You’re saying that cops are not trained to recognize fentanyl OD? And your evidence is that they end up getting exposed themselves?

Seems to me that wouldn’t have to happen that many times before departments started warning them what the signs are.

[Horace]

@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:

@Horace said in Chauvin shivved:

@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:
Meanwhile, those of us without socially obligated belief systems to attend to, might have much more understanding of the cops' perspective, and might not be inclined to hold them to standards that make sense with perfect hindsight, and google searches.

I am socially obligated to believe that cops are trained to recognize drug overdose symptoms for extremely common street drugs and don't need to google.

To be clear, in your belief system, cops who recognize drug induced altered states in people they are trying to subdue, should, in those moments, choose from a different set of options, depending on their diagnosis and the potential physical complications it implies? Even when the person is clearly not physically incapacitated. Interesting. You are among the millions of people with outsized empathy for one side of police interactions, and minimal empathy for the other side. It calls into question whether empathy as a general concept is really at play here.

[George K]

@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:

You’re saying that cops are not trained to recognize fentanyl OD? And your evidence is that they end up getting exposed themselves?

I'm saying that cops that are supposedly trained to recognize common drug ODs, specifically fentanyl, are subject to not recognizing that it is harmless when you come in contact with it. As I've said in the past, somehow, i managed to survive 40 years of physical contact with the stuff. Cops should know better.

Link to video

This is NOT an opiate overdose, and videos like this continue to spread so-called "training" about the dangers of fentanyl.

Link to video

[LuFins Dad]

Sorry, put me on Jon’s side on this. Chauvin didn’t just cross the line, he obliterated it. And police must be held to higher standards when they do cross the line.

[Jolly]

Just a note from someone who has been around

A. Crazy people
B. Drug overdose people
C. Batshit crazy people that are high as a kite

Many times, it is very hard to tell which one of those categories a person falls under.

[Jolly]

@LuFins-Dad said in Chauvin shivved:

Sorry, put me on Jon’s side on this. Chauvin didn’t just cross the line, he obliterated it. And police must be held to higher standards when they do cross the line.

Second degree murder? Third degree murder?

Police should be held to a high standard, but they should also be charged and prosecuted fairly.

[Horace]

Chauvin’s a dick, but Floyd died largely from health complications. The crime is more appropriate for a choke hold. As for the other associated cops, they are just tragic splash damage of a mob moral panic.

[jon-nyc]

@Jolly said in Chauvin shivved:

@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:

Google tells me respiratory depression or even arrest is a fentanyl overdose symptom. Very, very last person who’s neck you should put your weight on.

The more you guys post the more I’m starting to be convinced that the verdict was correct.

Floyd was a pretty good-sized guy and high as a kite. While I don't approve of the neck hold, tell me exactly how you handle someone like that, when they're resisting arrest?

The dude was already handcuffed face down when Chauvin put his weight on his neck for 9 solid minutes.

[Horace]

@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:

@Jolly said in Chauvin shivved:

@jon-nyc said in Chauvin shivved:

Google tells me respiratory depression or even arrest is a fentanyl overdose symptom. Very, very last person who’s neck you should put your weight on.

The more you guys post the more I’m starting to be convinced that the verdict was correct.

Floyd was a pretty good-sized guy and high as a kite. While I don't approve of the neck hold, tell me exactly how you handle someone like that, when they're resisting arrest?

The dude was already handcuffed face down when Chauvin put his weight on his neck for 9 solid minutes.

So you believe Chauvin intended to kill Floyd? I understand that whenever anybody does something stupid or careless that causes the death of another person, the consequences skyrocket. But where is the line for 1st degree murder?

We have a very similar case coming up with Daniel Penny, I guess we'll all have our chance to throw our lots in with this or that tribally meaningful conclusion.