I think I just tanked an interview
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@Aqua-Letifer , I don’t know how big this prospective employer of yours is, but I doubt they will write any of your special provisions about “working from home” into your employment paperwork. I am guessing it will be a standard “at will” employment offer, with all the “work from home” stuff left unwritten in the formal paperwork. With this COVID-19 situation changing rapidly from week to week, I doubt any lawyer will write any concrete “return to office” schedule or conditions into any employment agreement beyond boilerplate languages absolving the employer of COVID-19 responsibilities as much as possible.
Right now, you can make a general statement like “I won’t go into the office unless I feel reasonably safe to do so” ... but that will be a throw-away statement because who in their right mind would go into the anywhere every day if they do not feel safe going there?
You “work from home” to start, that’s your starting point. You know you are not going to go into the office for any reason (not for orientation, not for training, not for equipment pickup) in the near term (may be the next few weeks or the next month of two), let them know that’s your deal — they can tell you whether they still want to hire you after you tell them your deal. That lets both parties be up-front about a sticky point, and I think that’s fair.
Beyond that, about when and under what conditions they re-open their office and “require” you to go into the office, I don’t see that as anything that can be prescribed and written into an employment paperwork. So that’s the part where you, and they, just have to take it on faith and play by ear until they officially re-open their office — even then your direct manager may still let you work from home, or not — then you can tell them whether you will be willing to go into the office physically based on what you know at that time, and the decision on whether to continue your employment can be made from there (your employment is “at will” after all).
Good luck, I hope things work out for you.
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Aqua, what are the criteria that you would feel comfortable with for working in the office? We first need to establish that to see if your standards and theirs are completely incompatible.
Me/rry/Christmas
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@LuFins-Dad said in I think I just tanked an interview:
Aqua, what are the criteria that you would feel comfortable with for working in the office? We first need to establish that to see if your standards and theirs are completely incompatible.
None. None whatsoever. Nevermind looking into the matter pro-actively, I have people on photography subreddits complaining about being forced back into their offices in the DC area. On freaking LinkedIn, I hear story after story from people whose employers are doing absolutely nothing to protect them. And with this business in particular, they were flabbergasted when I told them my boss tested positive. They were honestly surprised, because for them, my boss is the closest degree of separation they've come to having to deal with this. They live in the boonies and it's not at all real to them.
And then you have THIS kind of bullshit.
No, I'm not going in anywhere until there's a vaccine, period. It'd be different if I could trust people, but even here on TNCR there's a ton of insanity about the evil of masks and other basic public safety measures.
So right now I'm thinking I'm going to give them TG and Mik's suggestion, backed by brenda's reasoning.
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Holy cow, yeah, having your boss test positive is too darn close. Working in the same office area and having meetings in the same room would be a tremendous risk for someone with lung issues already.
At least your position is clear and succinct. Remote work until a vaccine is available to you. They should be able to grasp that. Their flexibility is going to be tested, and they really should expect that given the current circumstances and news reports.
As for whether this gets written into a contract, if it is, good. If not, it can still be documented in your employee file, with signatures from the firm's representatives, and with a signed copy given directly to you for your own file and safekeeping. Whether they will honor it is hard to know, but that document would make it more difficult in some ways for them. They may refuse to have any documentation, but you can ask for it. If you don't ask, then you know for certain there won't be any offered.
The relative positions of power for employee and employer swing back and forth over the years like a pendulum. They swing almost as much as Jon's sister on her stripper pole. Right now there is a bit of a swing toward protecting workers. It's not complete, as your link above demonstrates, but there are also many cases not in the news of employers being flexible on this issue. Good news often doesn't make the news.
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@brenda said in I think I just tanked an interview:
The relative positions of power for employee and employer swing back and forth over the years like a pendulum. They swing almost as much as Jon's sister on her stripper pole.
Brenda you crack me up.
I incorporated a little bit of everything mentioned here into my response--thanks a ton everybody for chiming in. I think the email I sent was nice, reasonable, and definitely calls out their ridiculous double standard in a way that seems pleasant. That part took some doing, but when they say no dice, they're going to either sound cold or stupid.
Would be more than willing to share the eventual correspondence with anyone over email if they're interested! I can only imagine what the reply's going to be.
(I feel bad, though. The HR lady was really pulling for me, and she's the one I had to send my response to.)
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Sounds like it comes down the fact they want the job to ultimately be office based.
I think it’s reasonable to have them ask you to come to the office once to pick up hardware. I wouldn’t hire you if you wouldn’t even do that because I would think ever getting you in the office for an office job would be a struggle.
It may be ridiculous that this is an office job but it’s their prerogative.
Obviously this is nothing against you. I just think the two of you are too far apart on a fundamental issue. You could deflect by going to get your equipment but you have your valid reasons for not wanting to.
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@Loki said in I think I just tanked an interview:
I wouldn’t hire you if you wouldn’t even do that because I would think ever getting you in the office for an office job would be a struggle.
Right, but it's not an office job. Literally it isn't. No one I'd work with would be in that office.
You're right, though. Irreconcilable differences.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in I think I just tanked an interview:
@Loki said in I think I just tanked an interview:
I wouldn’t hire you if you wouldn’t even do that because I would think ever getting you in the office for an office job would be a struggle.
Right, but it's not an office job. Literally it isn't. No one I'd work with would be in that office.
You're right, though. Irreconcilable differences.
I hear you. Right now there is a large national trend away from offices and to the home. It suits the corporation to save on real estate and the individual gets more freedom and less commute time.
I predict this will swing back, not all the way, but there will be regrets, big time.
Corporations will come to understand that they will not be able to perpetuate their “myth” (as defined by Harari- read Sapiens) and engagement will suffer mightedly.
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@Loki What I think will slow it will be the desperation due to higher unemployment. Employers will be able to set the terms for some. For others, who already are working remotely, the cat won't return to the bag. So it'll be interesting.
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@Catseye3 said in I think I just tanked an interview:
Haven't had anything useful to contribute so I stayed out of it. Just want to wish you good fortune, no matter what you decide on this offer.
I'm flounderin' too, so that's very much appreciated, Cats.
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I'm seeing remote work as a national security issue. Do not think some hard-eyed folks world round have not seen first hand what this virus has done to weaken this country on a lot of fronts. It may or may not have been accidental this time but it doesn't mean it wont be intentional next.
If we don't take major steps now while it is fresh to harden ourselves against future pandemic events we are very foolish.
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@Aqua-Letifer Ok, you don’t feel comfortable going in unless there’s a vaccine. That’s your go to for the job, do explain that firmly but nicely. It’s not a matter for negotiation.
Now, is there a chance that they would be willing to consider bringing you on as a short timer while they are still working from home?
Me/rry/Christmas
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@LuFins-Dad said in I think I just tanked an interview:
Now, is there a chance that they would be willing to consider bringing you on as a short timer while they are still working from home?
Good question, and one I'll definitely pose after the initial rejection.
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No response! Either they're really mulling over their options or they've decided to ghost me.
Absolutely hilarious. Five weeks for 8 interviews, a ton of back-and-forth in between each, I submitted 8 work samples, and sent a very nice email about the preemptive offer that outlined my request for remote work. No response. And I know for a fact they had no one else lined up. In the mind of my would-be boss and the CFO, this was pretty much a done deal.
Now nothing.
Man, if this is how they're going to handle it, I really dodged a bullet here.
Had a talk with a recruiter today about another position.
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I suspect they have to get some approval. It takes time.
In the future I think you need to make your workplace expectations clear earlier on They may feel they invested a lot of time to come up on this now.
Now me, by the third interview I would have been pressing for a decision. Eight interviews is ridiculous.
"My pronouns are FA/FO." - Mik, 2024
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@Mik said in I think I just tanked an interview:
Now me, by the third interview I would have been pressing for a decision. Eight interviews is ridiculous.
They don't know how to deal with virtual interviews, so I give them some latitude there. They said they've never done this in the past with in-person interviews. Basically this is a company that runs out of three timezones who don't know how to work remotely. Hilarious.
