Those Scary Christians
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Much of our Constitution, Bill of Rights and basic law are based on many of the beliefs of Christianity and the Founders were Christian or at least were very familiar with the religion.
They were also very familiar with Greco-Roman philosophy, Renaissance Humanism and, for them, contemporary thinking of what we refer to as the Enlightenment. Several including Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe and Washington had no use for organized religion and referred to themselves Deists. They believed in the ability of human reason. Still others professed their faith through non Chalcedon compliant denominations such as Quakers and Unitarianism - both of which would not necessarily be considered Christian then or even now.
I would argue therefore the US was founded on the principles of human reason as manifested during the 18 Century Enlightenment.
wrote on 19 Dec 2022, 17:24 last edited by@Renauda said in Those Scary Christians:
I would argue therefore the US was founded on the principles of human reason as manifested during the 18 Century Enlightenment.
The contemporary re-writing of US history might agree with that, after a few more years of re-writing.
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@Renauda said in Those Scary Christians:
I would argue therefore the US was founded on the principles of human reason as manifested during the 18 Century Enlightenment.
The contemporary re-writing of US history might agree with that, after a few more years of re-writing.
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@Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:
Well, it is from Better Bull Crap, so they picked the more extreme elements to generate eyeballs.
Sadly, not all British news organizations can stand up to the journalistic rigour of your usual go-to publication, The Daily Mail.
wrote on 19 Dec 2022, 18:04 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:
@Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:
Well, it is from Better Bull Crap, so they picked the more extreme elements to generate eyeballs.
Sadly, not all British news organizations can stand up to the journalistic rigour of your usual go-to publication, The Daily Mail.
Tell ya what, beefeater, the two organizations resemble each other more than you will admit, differing only in viewpoint and snot tracks.
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Much of our Constitution, Bill of Rights and basic law are based on many of the beliefs of Christianity and the Founders were Christian or at least were very familiar with the religion.
They were also very familiar with Greco-Roman philosophy, Renaissance Humanism and, for them, contemporary thinking of what we refer to as the Enlightenment. Several including Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe and Washington had no use for organized religion and referred to themselves Deists. They believed in the ability of human reason. Still others professed their faith through non Chalcedon compliant denominations such as Quakers and Unitarianism - both of which would not necessarily be considered Christian then or even now.
I would argue therefore the US was founded on the principles of human reason as manifested during the 18 Century Enlightenment.
wrote on 19 Dec 2022, 18:06 last edited by@Renauda said in Those Scary Christians:
Much of our Constitution, Bill of Rights and basic law are based on many of the beliefs of Christianity and the Founders were Christian or at least were very familiar with the religion.
They were also very familiar with Greco-Roman philosophy, Renaissance Humanism and, for them, contemporary thinking of what we refer to as the Enlightenment. Several including Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe and Washington had no use for organized religion and referred to themselves Deists. They believed in the ability of human reason. Still others professed their faith through non Chalcedon compliant denominations such as Quakers and Unitarianism - both of which would not necessarily be considered Christian then or even now.
I would argue therefore the US was founded on the principles of human reason as manifested during the 18 Century Enlightenment.
Yet, they were quite familiar with the Bible and quoted scriptures or made scriptural references quite a bit.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:
@Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:
Well, it is from Better Bull Crap, so they picked the more extreme elements to generate eyeballs.
Sadly, not all British news organizations can stand up to the journalistic rigour of your usual go-to publication, The Daily Mail.
Tell ya what, beefeater, the two organizations resemble each other more than you will admit, differing only in viewpoint and snot tracks.
wrote on 19 Dec 2022, 18:08 last edited by Doctor Phibes@Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:
@Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:
Well, it is from Better Bull Crap, so they picked the more extreme elements to generate eyeballs.
Sadly, not all British news organizations can stand up to the journalistic rigour of your usual go-to publication, The Daily Mail.
Tell ya what, beefeater, the two organizations resemble each other more than you will admit, differing only in viewpoint and snot tracks.
You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
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@Renauda said in Those Scary Christians:
Much of our Constitution, Bill of Rights and basic law are based on many of the beliefs of Christianity and the Founders were Christian or at least were very familiar with the religion.
They were also very familiar with Greco-Roman philosophy, Renaissance Humanism and, for them, contemporary thinking of what we refer to as the Enlightenment. Several including Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe and Washington had no use for organized religion and referred to themselves Deists. They believed in the ability of human reason. Still others professed their faith through non Chalcedon compliant denominations such as Quakers and Unitarianism - both of which would not necessarily be considered Christian then or even now.
I would argue therefore the US was founded on the principles of human reason as manifested during the 18 Century Enlightenment.
Yet, they were quite familiar with the Bible and quoted scriptures or made scriptural references quite a bit.
wrote on 19 Dec 2022, 19:04 last edited by@Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:
@Renauda said in Those Scary Christians:
Much of our Constitution, Bill of Rights and basic law are based on many of the beliefs of Christianity and the Founders were Christian or at least were very familiar with the religion.
They were also very familiar with Greco-Roman philosophy, Renaissance Humanism and, for them, contemporary thinking of what we refer to as the Enlightenment. Several including Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe and Washington had no use for organized religion and referred to themselves Deists. They believed in the ability of human reason. Still others professed their faith through non Chalcedon compliant denominations such as Quakers and Unitarianism - both of which would not necessarily be considered Christian then or even now.
I would argue therefore the US was founded on the principles of human reason as manifested during the 18 Century Enlightenment.
Yet, they were quite familiar with the Bible and quoted scriptures or made scriptural references quite a bit.
I am not disputing that. What I am saying though is that they were a product of their time and thought of themselves as being guided by reason as opposed to the dogmas and superstitions of previous generations.
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wrote on 19 Dec 2022, 19:24 last edited by
America was conceived by several who were Christian - but they explicitly left almost all reference to the divine out of its framing.
That seems to very much have been done on purpose.
The people in the article are wrong. They have every right to advocate for policies in line with their Christian beliefs - but the government should not be Christian.
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@Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:
@Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:
Well, it is from Better Bull Crap, so they picked the more extreme elements to generate eyeballs.
Sadly, not all British news organizations can stand up to the journalistic rigour of your usual go-to publication, The Daily Mail.
Tell ya what, beefeater, the two organizations resemble each other more than you will admit, differing only in viewpoint and snot tracks.
You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
wrote on 19 Dec 2022, 20:10 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:
@Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:
@Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:
Well, it is from Better Bull Crap, so they picked the more extreme elements to generate eyeballs.
Sadly, not all British news organizations can stand up to the journalistic rigour of your usual go-to publication, The Daily Mail.
Tell ya what, beefeater, the two organizations resemble each other more than you will admit, differing only in viewpoint and snot tracks.
You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Nah, you're living in the past. It ain't your father's BBC.
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America was conceived by several who were Christian - but they explicitly left almost all reference to the divine out of its framing.
That seems to very much have been done on purpose.
The people in the article are wrong. They have every right to advocate for policies in line with their Christian beliefs - but the government should not be Christian.
wrote on 19 Dec 2022, 20:16 last edited by@xenon said in Those Scary Christians:
America was conceived by several who were Christian - but they explicitly left almost all reference to the divine out of its framing.
That seems to very much have been done on purpose.
The people in the article are wrong. They have every right to advocate for policies in line with their Christian beliefs - but the government should not be Christian.
Perhaps, but the essential underpinnings of our government and way of life are Western European and Christian.
Are would you rather have a government like Jordan, India, China or Thailand?
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:
@Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:
@Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:
Well, it is from Better Bull Crap, so they picked the more extreme elements to generate eyeballs.
Sadly, not all British news organizations can stand up to the journalistic rigour of your usual go-to publication, The Daily Mail.
Tell ya what, beefeater, the two organizations resemble each other more than you will admit, differing only in viewpoint and snot tracks.
You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Nah, you're living in the past. It ain't your father's BBC.
wrote on 19 Dec 2022, 21:05 last edited by Doctor Phibes@Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:
@Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:
@Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:
Well, it is from Better Bull Crap, so they picked the more extreme elements to generate eyeballs.
Sadly, not all British news organizations can stand up to the journalistic rigour of your usual go-to publication, The Daily Mail.
Tell ya what, beefeater, the two organizations resemble each other more than you will admit, differing only in viewpoint and snot tracks.
You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Nah, you're living in the past. It ain't your father's BBC.
You should look up the oversight system. The BBC operates under a charter, and is regulated. The Daily Mail isn't.
Also, you should try watching and listening to some of their programming rather than believing what you read about them in places like the Daily Mail, which has long hated it almost as much as it hates pretty much everything else modern.
Is the BBC perfect? Obviously not. They suffer from bias, and some level of liberal elitism. I find their toadying to the Royals quite tedious, too - but lots of media people do that in England. But to compare them to a rag like the Mail is ridiculous.
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@xenon said in Those Scary Christians:
America was conceived by several who were Christian - but they explicitly left almost all reference to the divine out of its framing.
That seems to very much have been done on purpose.
The people in the article are wrong. They have every right to advocate for policies in line with their Christian beliefs - but the government should not be Christian.
Perhaps, but the essential underpinnings of our government and way of life are Western European and Christian.
Are would you rather have a government like Jordan, India, China or Thailand?
wrote on 19 Dec 2022, 23:28 last edited by RenaudaPerhaps, but the essential underpinnings of our government and way of life are Western European and Christian.
Are would you rather have a government like Jordan, India, China or Thailand?
Christian Western European political thought also produced at least a few undesirable, if not thoroughly reprehensible, ~isms that shaped much of the 20th century global political landscape.
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Perhaps, but the essential underpinnings of our government and way of life are Western European and Christian.
Are would you rather have a government like Jordan, India, China or Thailand?
Christian Western European political thought also produced at least a few undesirable, if not thoroughly reprehensible, ~isms that shaped much of the 20th century global political landscape.
wrote on 19 Dec 2022, 23:33 last edited by Doctor Phibes@Renauda said in Those Scary Christians:
Perhaps, but the essential underpinnings of our government and way of life are Western European and Christian.
Are would you rather have a government like Jordan, India, China or Thailand?
Christian Western European political thought also produced at least a few undesirable, if not wholly reprehensible,isms that shaped much of 20th century.
Doesn’t Russia claim to hold traditional Christian values? He’s certainly got the church pandering to his regime, and they’re notoriously ‘traditional’ with their attitudes to homosexuality, for example. Some people on the American right were at one point implying that Putin was defending traditional Christianity.
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@Renauda said in Those Scary Christians:
Perhaps, but the essential underpinnings of our government and way of life are Western European and Christian.
Are would you rather have a government like Jordan, India, China or Thailand?
Christian Western European political thought also produced at least a few undesirable, if not wholly reprehensible,isms that shaped much of 20th century.
Doesn’t Russia claim to hold traditional Christian values? He’s certainly got the church pandering to his regime, and they’re notoriously ‘traditional’ with their attitudes to homosexuality, for example. Some people on the American right were at one point implying that Putin was defending traditional Christianity.
wrote on 19 Dec 2022, 23:35 last edited by RenaudaYes, Russia considers itself the Third Rome.
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wrote on 20 Dec 2022, 00:39 last edited by
Russia is a corruption of the Third Rome.
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wrote on 20 Dec 2022, 02:04 last edited by
@Renauda said in Those Scary Christians:
Not to worry, Russia thinks the US is a corruption of all morality.
So do some forum members (whom I won't name, of course).