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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Those Scary Christians

Those Scary Christians

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  • RenaudaR Renauda

    @Jolly

    Much of our Constitution, Bill of Rights and basic law are based on many of the beliefs of Christianity and the Founders were Christian or at least were very familiar with the religion.

    They were also very familiar with Greco-Roman philosophy, Renaissance Humanism and, for them, contemporary thinking of what we refer to as the Enlightenment. Several including Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe and Washington had no use for organized religion and referred to themselves Deists. They believed in the ability of human reason. Still others professed their faith through non Chalcedon compliant denominations such as Quakers and Unitarianism - both of which would not necessarily be considered Christian then or even now.

    I would argue therefore the US was founded on the principles of human reason as manifested during the 18 Century Enlightenment.

    CopperC Offline
    CopperC Offline
    Copper
    wrote on last edited by
    #11

    @Renauda said in Those Scary Christians:

    I would argue therefore the US was founded on the principles of human reason as manifested during the 18 Century Enlightenment.

    The contemporary re-writing of US history might agree with that, after a few more years of re-writing.

    RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
    • CopperC Copper

      @Renauda said in Those Scary Christians:

      I would argue therefore the US was founded on the principles of human reason as manifested during the 18 Century Enlightenment.

      The contemporary re-writing of US history might agree with that, after a few more years of re-writing.

      RenaudaR Offline
      RenaudaR Offline
      Renauda
      wrote on last edited by Renauda
      #12

      @Copper

      As is almost always, you’re probably right.

      Elbows up!

      1 Reply Last reply
      • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

        @Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:

        Well, it is from Better Bull Crap, so they picked the more extreme elements to generate eyeballs.

        Sadly, not all British news organizations can stand up to the journalistic rigour of your usual go-to publication, The Daily Mail.

        JollyJ Offline
        JollyJ Offline
        Jolly
        wrote on last edited by
        #13

        @Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:

        @Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:

        Well, it is from Better Bull Crap, so they picked the more extreme elements to generate eyeballs.

        Sadly, not all British news organizations can stand up to the journalistic rigour of your usual go-to publication, The Daily Mail.

        Tell ya what, beefeater, the two organizations resemble each other more than you will admit, differing only in viewpoint and snot tracks.

        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

        Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
        • RenaudaR Renauda

          @Jolly

          Much of our Constitution, Bill of Rights and basic law are based on many of the beliefs of Christianity and the Founders were Christian or at least were very familiar with the religion.

          They were also very familiar with Greco-Roman philosophy, Renaissance Humanism and, for them, contemporary thinking of what we refer to as the Enlightenment. Several including Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe and Washington had no use for organized religion and referred to themselves Deists. They believed in the ability of human reason. Still others professed their faith through non Chalcedon compliant denominations such as Quakers and Unitarianism - both of which would not necessarily be considered Christian then or even now.

          I would argue therefore the US was founded on the principles of human reason as manifested during the 18 Century Enlightenment.

          JollyJ Offline
          JollyJ Offline
          Jolly
          wrote on last edited by
          #14

          @Renauda said in Those Scary Christians:

          @Jolly

          Much of our Constitution, Bill of Rights and basic law are based on many of the beliefs of Christianity and the Founders were Christian or at least were very familiar with the religion.

          They were also very familiar with Greco-Roman philosophy, Renaissance Humanism and, for them, contemporary thinking of what we refer to as the Enlightenment. Several including Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe and Washington had no use for organized religion and referred to themselves Deists. They believed in the ability of human reason. Still others professed their faith through non Chalcedon compliant denominations such as Quakers and Unitarianism - both of which would not necessarily be considered Christian then or even now.

          I would argue therefore the US was founded on the principles of human reason as manifested during the 18 Century Enlightenment.

          Yet, they were quite familiar with the Bible and quoted scriptures or made scriptural references quite a bit.

          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

          RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
          • JollyJ Jolly

            @Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:

            @Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:

            Well, it is from Better Bull Crap, so they picked the more extreme elements to generate eyeballs.

            Sadly, not all British news organizations can stand up to the journalistic rigour of your usual go-to publication, The Daily Mail.

            Tell ya what, beefeater, the two organizations resemble each other more than you will admit, differing only in viewpoint and snot tracks.

            Doctor PhibesD Offline
            Doctor PhibesD Offline
            Doctor Phibes
            wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
            #15

            @Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:

            @Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:

            @Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:

            Well, it is from Better Bull Crap, so they picked the more extreme elements to generate eyeballs.

            Sadly, not all British news organizations can stand up to the journalistic rigour of your usual go-to publication, The Daily Mail.

            Tell ya what, beefeater, the two organizations resemble each other more than you will admit, differing only in viewpoint and snot tracks.

            You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

            I was only joking

            JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
            • JollyJ Jolly

              @Renauda said in Those Scary Christians:

              @Jolly

              Much of our Constitution, Bill of Rights and basic law are based on many of the beliefs of Christianity and the Founders were Christian or at least were very familiar with the religion.

              They were also very familiar with Greco-Roman philosophy, Renaissance Humanism and, for them, contemporary thinking of what we refer to as the Enlightenment. Several including Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe and Washington had no use for organized religion and referred to themselves Deists. They believed in the ability of human reason. Still others professed their faith through non Chalcedon compliant denominations such as Quakers and Unitarianism - both of which would not necessarily be considered Christian then or even now.

              I would argue therefore the US was founded on the principles of human reason as manifested during the 18 Century Enlightenment.

              Yet, they were quite familiar with the Bible and quoted scriptures or made scriptural references quite a bit.

              RenaudaR Offline
              RenaudaR Offline
              Renauda
              wrote on last edited by
              #16

              @Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:

              @Renauda said in Those Scary Christians:

              @Jolly

              Much of our Constitution, Bill of Rights and basic law are based on many of the beliefs of Christianity and the Founders were Christian or at least were very familiar with the religion.

              They were also very familiar with Greco-Roman philosophy, Renaissance Humanism and, for them, contemporary thinking of what we refer to as the Enlightenment. Several including Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe and Washington had no use for organized religion and referred to themselves Deists. They believed in the ability of human reason. Still others professed their faith through non Chalcedon compliant denominations such as Quakers and Unitarianism - both of which would not necessarily be considered Christian then or even now.

              I would argue therefore the US was founded on the principles of human reason as manifested during the 18 Century Enlightenment.

              Yet, they were quite familiar with the Bible and quoted scriptures or made scriptural references quite a bit.

              I am not disputing that. What I am saying though is that they were a product of their time and thought of themselves as being guided by reason as opposed to the dogmas and superstitions of previous generations.

              Elbows up!

              1 Reply Last reply
              • X Offline
                X Offline
                xenon
                wrote on last edited by
                #17

                America was conceived by several who were Christian - but they explicitly left almost all reference to the divine out of its framing.

                That seems to very much have been done on purpose.

                The people in the article are wrong. They have every right to advocate for policies in line with their Christian beliefs - but the government should not be Christian.

                JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                  @Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:

                  @Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:

                  @Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:

                  Well, it is from Better Bull Crap, so they picked the more extreme elements to generate eyeballs.

                  Sadly, not all British news organizations can stand up to the journalistic rigour of your usual go-to publication, The Daily Mail.

                  Tell ya what, beefeater, the two organizations resemble each other more than you will admit, differing only in viewpoint and snot tracks.

                  You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

                  JollyJ Offline
                  JollyJ Offline
                  Jolly
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #18

                  @Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:

                  @Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:

                  @Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:

                  @Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:

                  Well, it is from Better Bull Crap, so they picked the more extreme elements to generate eyeballs.

                  Sadly, not all British news organizations can stand up to the journalistic rigour of your usual go-to publication, The Daily Mail.

                  Tell ya what, beefeater, the two organizations resemble each other more than you will admit, differing only in viewpoint and snot tracks.

                  You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

                  Nah, you're living in the past. It ain't your father's BBC.

                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                  Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                  • X xenon

                    America was conceived by several who were Christian - but they explicitly left almost all reference to the divine out of its framing.

                    That seems to very much have been done on purpose.

                    The people in the article are wrong. They have every right to advocate for policies in line with their Christian beliefs - but the government should not be Christian.

                    JollyJ Offline
                    JollyJ Offline
                    Jolly
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #19

                    @xenon said in Those Scary Christians:

                    America was conceived by several who were Christian - but they explicitly left almost all reference to the divine out of its framing.

                    That seems to very much have been done on purpose.

                    The people in the article are wrong. They have every right to advocate for policies in line with their Christian beliefs - but the government should not be Christian.

                    Perhaps, but the essential underpinnings of our government and way of life are Western European and Christian.

                    Are would you rather have a government like Jordan, India, China or Thailand?

                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                    RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                    • JollyJ Jolly

                      @Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:

                      @Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:

                      @Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:

                      @Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:

                      Well, it is from Better Bull Crap, so they picked the more extreme elements to generate eyeballs.

                      Sadly, not all British news organizations can stand up to the journalistic rigour of your usual go-to publication, The Daily Mail.

                      Tell ya what, beefeater, the two organizations resemble each other more than you will admit, differing only in viewpoint and snot tracks.

                      You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

                      Nah, you're living in the past. It ain't your father's BBC.

                      Doctor PhibesD Offline
                      Doctor PhibesD Offline
                      Doctor Phibes
                      wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
                      #20

                      @Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:

                      @Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:

                      @Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:

                      @Doctor-Phibes said in Those Scary Christians:

                      @Jolly said in Those Scary Christians:

                      Well, it is from Better Bull Crap, so they picked the more extreme elements to generate eyeballs.

                      Sadly, not all British news organizations can stand up to the journalistic rigour of your usual go-to publication, The Daily Mail.

                      Tell ya what, beefeater, the two organizations resemble each other more than you will admit, differing only in viewpoint and snot tracks.

                      You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

                      Nah, you're living in the past. It ain't your father's BBC.

                      You should look up the oversight system. The BBC operates under a charter, and is regulated. The Daily Mail isn't.

                      Also, you should try watching and listening to some of their programming rather than believing what you read about them in places like the Daily Mail, which has long hated it almost as much as it hates pretty much everything else modern.

                      Is the BBC perfect? Obviously not. They suffer from bias, and some level of liberal elitism. I find their toadying to the Royals quite tedious, too - but lots of media people do that in England. But to compare them to a rag like the Mail is ridiculous.

                      I was only joking

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • JollyJ Jolly

                        @xenon said in Those Scary Christians:

                        America was conceived by several who were Christian - but they explicitly left almost all reference to the divine out of its framing.

                        That seems to very much have been done on purpose.

                        The people in the article are wrong. They have every right to advocate for policies in line with their Christian beliefs - but the government should not be Christian.

                        Perhaps, but the essential underpinnings of our government and way of life are Western European and Christian.

                        Are would you rather have a government like Jordan, India, China or Thailand?

                        RenaudaR Offline
                        RenaudaR Offline
                        Renauda
                        wrote on last edited by Renauda
                        #21

                        @Jolly

                        Perhaps, but the essential underpinnings of our government and way of life are Western European and Christian.

                        Are would you rather have a government like Jordan, India, China or Thailand?

                        Christian Western European political thought also produced at least a few undesirable, if not thoroughly reprehensible, ~isms that shaped much of the 20th century global political landscape.

                        Elbows up!

                        Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                        • RenaudaR Renauda

                          @Jolly

                          Perhaps, but the essential underpinnings of our government and way of life are Western European and Christian.

                          Are would you rather have a government like Jordan, India, China or Thailand?

                          Christian Western European political thought also produced at least a few undesirable, if not thoroughly reprehensible, ~isms that shaped much of the 20th century global political landscape.

                          Doctor PhibesD Offline
                          Doctor PhibesD Offline
                          Doctor Phibes
                          wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
                          #22

                          @Renauda said in Those Scary Christians:

                          @Jolly

                          Perhaps, but the essential underpinnings of our government and way of life are Western European and Christian.

                          Are would you rather have a government like Jordan, India, China or Thailand?

                          Christian Western European political thought also produced at least a few undesirable, if not wholly reprehensible,isms that shaped much of 20th century.

                          Doesn’t Russia claim to hold traditional Christian values? He’s certainly got the church pandering to his regime, and they’re notoriously ‘traditional’ with their attitudes to homosexuality, for example. Some people on the American right were at one point implying that Putin was defending traditional Christianity.

                          I was only joking

                          RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                          • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                            @Renauda said in Those Scary Christians:

                            @Jolly

                            Perhaps, but the essential underpinnings of our government and way of life are Western European and Christian.

                            Are would you rather have a government like Jordan, India, China or Thailand?

                            Christian Western European political thought also produced at least a few undesirable, if not wholly reprehensible,isms that shaped much of 20th century.

                            Doesn’t Russia claim to hold traditional Christian values? He’s certainly got the church pandering to his regime, and they’re notoriously ‘traditional’ with their attitudes to homosexuality, for example. Some people on the American right were at one point implying that Putin was defending traditional Christianity.

                            RenaudaR Offline
                            RenaudaR Offline
                            Renauda
                            wrote on last edited by Renauda
                            #23

                            @Doctor-Phibes

                            Yes, Russia considers itself the Third Rome.

                            Elbows up!

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • JollyJ Offline
                              JollyJ Offline
                              Jolly
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #24

                              Russia is a corruption of the Third Rome.

                              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                              RenaudaR 2 Replies Last reply
                              • JollyJ Jolly

                                Russia is a corruption of the Third Rome.

                                RenaudaR Offline
                                RenaudaR Offline
                                Renauda
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #25

                                @Jolly

                                Not to worry, Russia thinks the US is a corruption of all morality.

                                Elbows up!

                                George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                • RenaudaR Renauda

                                  @Jolly

                                  Not to worry, Russia thinks the US is a corruption of all morality.

                                  George KG Offline
                                  George KG Offline
                                  George K
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #26

                                  @Renauda said in Those Scary Christians:

                                  @Jolly

                                  Not to worry, Russia thinks the US is a corruption of all morality.

                                  So do some forum members (whom I won't name, of course).

                                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • JollyJ Jolly

                                    Russia is a corruption of the Third Rome.

                                    RenaudaR Offline
                                    RenaudaR Offline
                                    Renauda
                                    wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                    #27

                                    @Jolly

                                    What I meant to say is that I have my doubts that in third place Moscow is any more or less corrupt than Rome and Constantinople in the timeline of history.

                                    Elbows up!

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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