Not bad, Tesla
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@jon-nyc said in Not bad, Tesla:
500mi is pretty close to the maximum miles a driver will clock before he’s required to rest minimum 10 hours so it’s a pretty decent target.
800 miles is the target. Drivers are required to not drive more than 12 hours after 10 hours off. I’m sure that there are long haul truckers that break that law, but that doesn’t change the target. I would still have questions regarding efficiency and reliability, but it’s a good start.
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And in 1920, there were less than 15000 petrol stations in the US.
Now, there are 10x as many.
Same thing will happen with charging stations.
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And in 1920, there were less than 15000 petrol stations in the US.
Now, there are 10x as many.
Same thing will happen with charging stations.
@taiwan_girl said in Not bad, Tesla:
And in 1920, there were less than 15000 petrol stations in the US.
Now, there are 10x as many.That's right. And it only took 100 years.
What was the demand for gas stations in 1920, compared to the ownership of an automobile? I would guess that the ratio of people needing gas stations in 1920 to the availabilty of gas stations was significantly different than a similar comparison of EV charging stations.
It will happen, to be sure, especially with electricity coming from unicorn farts and lithium magically appearing out of nowhere.
But not soon, and not without major inconvenience.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@taiwan_girl said in Not bad, Tesla:
And in 1920, there were less than 15000 petrol stations in the US.
Now, there are 10x as many.That's right. And it only took 100 years.
What was the demand for gas stations in 1920, compared to the ownership of an automobile? I would guess that the ratio of people needing gas stations in 1920 to the availabilty of gas stations was significantly different than a similar comparison of EV charging stations.
It will happen, to be sure, especially with electricity coming from unicorn farts and lithium magically appearing out of nowhere.
But not soon, and not without major inconvenience.
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And in 1920, there were less than 15000 petrol stations in the US.
Now, there are 10x as many.
Same thing will happen with charging stations.
@taiwan_girl said in Not bad, Tesla:
Same thing will happen with charging stations.
If we redirected all the electricity in the world today to powering our cars, would it be enough?
If not, where will it come from?
Coal? Natural gas? Oil? Nuclear?
Is there enough coal in the world to make the electricity needed?
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@taiwan_girl said in Not bad, Tesla:
And in 1920, there were less than 15000 petrol stations in the US.
Now, there are 10x as many.That's right. And it only took 100 years.
What was the demand for gas stations in 1920, compared to the ownership of an automobile? I would guess that the ratio of people needing gas stations in 1920 to the availabilty of gas stations was significantly different than a similar comparison of EV charging stations.
It will happen, to be sure, especially with electricity coming from unicorn farts and lithium magically appearing out of nowhere.
But not soon, and not without major inconvenience.
@George-K Good points. I hadn't thought of it that way.
In any case, got me investigating.
1920
9,000,000 cars
~14,000 petrol stationsSo today, it appears that there are probably less petrol stations per car now than back then!! (I am surprised)
(But, i understand that back then, some of the petrol stations were not "true" stations as they sold petrol by the bucket or something like that)
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All the worrying over the problems with battery powered cars isn't going to change the inevitability of what's happening.
Hopefully the batteries are an intermediate stage to finding something that is genuinely better for the environment.
Failing that, maybe we can all work from home and do without the bloody things. I can't bloody stand driving into work. It's such a waste of time.
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@George-K Good points. I hadn't thought of it that way.
In any case, got me investigating.
1920
9,000,000 cars
~14,000 petrol stationsSo today, it appears that there are probably less petrol stations per car now than back then!! (I am surprised)
(But, i understand that back then, some of the petrol stations were not "true" stations as they sold petrol by the bucket or something like that)
@taiwan_girl said in Not bad, Tesla:
@George-K Good points. I hadn't thought of it that way.
In any case, got me investigating.
1920
9,000,000 cars
~14,000 petrol stationsSo today, it appears that there are probably less petrol stations per car now than back then!! (I am surprised)
Should probably compare the two time periods using "gallons of fuel sold" rather than "number of automobiles."
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Wyoming.
Biggest city in Wyoming is somewhere in the 55k range. A couple of other small cities and then a whole lot of nothing, except for some ranches and pretty small towns.
Like West Texas, I don't see electric vehicles working here. Not even the semis.
Delivery trucks in urban areas, day-haul big rigs in more populated areas...Yep, if diesel is high enough and electricity cheap enough, it makes sense.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Wyoming.
Biggest city in Wyoming is somewhere in the 55k range. A couple of other small cities and then a whole lot of nothing, except for some ranches and pretty small towns.
Like West Texas, I don't see electric vehicles working here. Not even the semis.
Delivery trucks in urban areas, day-haul big rigs in more populated areas...Yep, if diesel is high enough and electricity cheap enough, it makes sense.
@Jolly said in Not bad, Tesla:
Wyoming.
Biggest city in Wyoming is somewhere in the 55k range. A couple of other small cities and then a whole lot of nothing, except for some ranches and pretty small towns.
Like West Texas, I don't see electric vehicles working here. Not even the semis.
Delivery trucks in urban areas, day-haul big rigs in more populated areas...Yep, if diesel is high enough and electricity cheap enough, it makes sense.
But are auto-makers going to build a business model based on sales in Wyoming?
I was only joking
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@Jolly said in Not bad, Tesla:
Wyoming.
Biggest city in Wyoming is somewhere in the 55k range. A couple of other small cities and then a whole lot of nothing, except for some ranches and pretty small towns.
Like West Texas, I don't see electric vehicles working here. Not even the semis.
Delivery trucks in urban areas, day-haul big rigs in more populated areas...Yep, if diesel is high enough and electricity cheap enough, it makes sense.
But are auto-makers going to build a business model based on sales in Wyoming?
@Doctor-Phibes said in Not bad, Tesla:
@Jolly said in Not bad, Tesla:
Wyoming.
Biggest city in Wyoming is somewhere in the 55k range. A couple of other small cities and then a whole lot of nothing, except for some ranches and pretty small towns.
Like West Texas, I don't see electric vehicles working here. Not even the semis.
Delivery trucks in urban areas, day-haul big rigs in more populated areas...Yep, if diesel is high enough and electricity cheap enough, it makes sense.
But are auto-makers going to build a business model based on sales in Wyoming?
Wyoming. Nebraska. Alaska. West Texas. These are places (and others like them) where EVs just don't make sense. And I don't know if they'll ever become populated enough to support a sufficient grid to power the needed vehicles. Or if EVs will ever have sufficient range to overcome the distance problem.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Not bad, Tesla:
@Jolly said in Not bad, Tesla:
Wyoming.
Biggest city in Wyoming is somewhere in the 55k range. A couple of other small cities and then a whole lot of nothing, except for some ranches and pretty small towns.
Like West Texas, I don't see electric vehicles working here. Not even the semis.
Delivery trucks in urban areas, day-haul big rigs in more populated areas...Yep, if diesel is high enough and electricity cheap enough, it makes sense.
But are auto-makers going to build a business model based on sales in Wyoming?
Wyoming. Nebraska. Alaska. West Texas. These are places (and others like them) where EVs just don't make sense. And I don't know if they'll ever become populated enough to support a sufficient grid to power the needed vehicles. Or if EVs will ever have sufficient range to overcome the distance problem.
@Jolly said in Not bad, Tesla:
Wyoming. Nebraska. Alaska. West Texas.
See Siberia for a glimpse of the future for these places.
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@Jolly said in Not bad, Tesla:
Wyoming. Nebraska. Alaska. West Texas.
See Siberia for a glimpse of the future for these places.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Not bad, Tesla:
@Jolly said in Not bad, Tesla:
Wyoming.
Biggest city in Wyoming is somewhere in the 55k range. A couple of other small cities and then a whole lot of nothing, except for some ranches and pretty small towns.
Like West Texas, I don't see electric vehicles working here. Not even the semis.
Delivery trucks in urban areas, day-haul big rigs in more populated areas...Yep, if diesel is high enough and electricity cheap enough, it makes sense.
But are auto-makers going to build a business model based on sales in Wyoming?
Wyoming. Nebraska. Alaska. West Texas. These are places (and others like them) where EVs just don't make sense. And I don't know if they'll ever become populated enough to support a sufficient grid to power the needed vehicles. Or if EVs will ever have sufficient range to overcome the distance problem.
@Jolly said in Not bad, Tesla:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Not bad, Tesla:
@Jolly said in Not bad, Tesla:
Wyoming.
Biggest city in Wyoming is somewhere in the 55k range. A couple of other small cities and then a whole lot of nothing, except for some ranches and pretty small towns.
Like West Texas, I don't see electric vehicles working here. Not even the semis.
Delivery trucks in urban areas, day-haul big rigs in more populated areas...Yep, if diesel is high enough and electricity cheap enough, it makes sense.
But are auto-makers going to build a business model based on sales in Wyoming?
Wyoming. Nebraska. Alaska. West Texas. These are places (and others like them) where EVs just don't make sense. And I don't know if they'll ever become populated enough to support a sufficient grid to power the needed vehicles. Or if EVs will ever have sufficient range to overcome the distance problem.
The distance argument is not a good one when dealing with tractor trailers. Trucks are only allowed to drive 10 hours, then must rest for 12 hours. Plenty of time to charge with a plug, let alone a Tesla charging station…Beyond that, as @jon-nyc pointed out, the logistics of installing EV stations in the more remote areas is certainly easier than the logistics of resupplying gasoline. If they can get the distance up to 700 miles between charges, they are off to a good start EXCEPT…
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there are already reliability issues with EV’s. The strain of hauling freight is even worse. Trucks are always down for repair. It will be even worse with EV’s
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The environmental impact…. Making 1 Tesla battery requires processing “25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust for just one battery.” Now the tractor trailer battery is 4 times the size of the standard Tesla battery so that’s 2,000,000 pounds of dirt… There are over 2,000,000 tractor trailers in the US. That’s 40000000000000000 pounds of dirt. Oh, and the batteries typically last 300,000 miles, but it’s fair to bet that these will last fewer due to the stresses in hauling freight. And since long haul truckers typically drive 125,000 miles per year, you are looking at likely replacing every 2 years… That’s just for the US.
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@Jolly said in Not bad, Tesla:
Wyoming. Nebraska. Alaska. West Texas.
See Siberia for a glimpse of the future for these places.
@Copper said in Not bad, Tesla:
@Jolly said in Not bad, Tesla:
Wyoming. Nebraska. Alaska. West Texas.
See Siberia for a glimpse of the future for these places.
So you're saying things are going to improve?
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Specifications:
- Range: over 500 miles when fully loaded, at total weight of 82,000 lbs / 37,195 kg
- Acceleration: 0-60 mph with a full load is around 20 seconds.
- Speed: Maintains highway-level speeds even up steep grades.
- Charging: 0-70% in 30 minutes
- Seating: The driver position is in the center, with two 15'' touchscreens facing the driver on each side, possible to stand up in the cabin.
- Efficiency: <2 kWh per mile officially, although Musk said separately it is currently 1.7kWh/mile, with a clear path to 1.6, possibly 1.5.
- Powertrain: 3 motors, 1000V architecture
Price: initially $150k for the 300-mile version; - $180k for the 500-mile version and $200k for Founders Series.
Charges to 70% in 30 minutes (but needs a fancy liquid-cooled cable).
Lots of interesting videos, charts at the link.
