My next piano??

[George K]

Went shopping today.

First of all the Kawai/Roland dealer.

He didn't have the CA49 in stock. It's been discontinued and is being heavily discounted (see post from Guitar Center).

He had the CN201 and CN301. The only difference is the cabinetry and the sound technology. Obviously the 301 is better, but with headphones they sound the same. They both played very nicely, and had a little "bounce" in the action. Not objectionable, but noticeable for the first few seconds. I think I preferred the CA49 that I played last week.

He had a nice collection of Rolands;

FP 701 (?). Sounds OK. Plays like a $1600 digital piano. Not at all impressed.
HP702. A huge jump in playability from the FP series. Not bad at all, and very playable. I would be happy with this except for...
HP704. Now there's a nice piano. I adjusted the touch to "moderately heavy" and it felt really, really good. The sounds are nice, but I think the Kawai might have the edge to my hearing-aid-assisted ears.

Checked out the Yamaha 735 at another store. It was certainly very, very playable. But somehow, the Roland just felt better to my arthritic fingers.

You know "The piano you play last is the one you like best?"

Nope. It was the piano I played second-last.

[kluurs]

Sounds about right. You liked the 702 a bit better than I did. I felt the 702 was just ok. To me the 704 was the sweet spot in the lineup, i.e. best value. The sound engine was Ok - speakers decent - but bring in an outside virtual instrument - and you can dial in a perfect piano to practice on. As you mentioned, it's amazing what one can do. I practice using one setting, but if I want to make a "recording" to share - I can add a much more sympathetic hall resonance to the experience.

The action provides a good workout and for me, isn't so distant from my grand so that I don't feel like I'm cheating myself. Make no mistake, while I'm giddy playing the digital, there are still things that one can do on a real grand that the digital can't quite do - BUT the same is also true. This time of year, with humidity being lower, the real piano doesn't sound as happy as it does in the spring and summer. This probably has something to do with how humidity affects the felts on the hammers. The digital has no such issues.

I've been working on the last movement of the Appassionata on the digital - and I can annoy myself without disturbing the neighbors.

As an aside, I'm reading a book by Stephen Hough who has a digital piano in his New York apartment. That's understandable, but what I find interesting is that he says he plays it with the volume low. "WHY no headphones??" I would think it would interfere more with his touch to have the volume low. Oh well. His piano. His choice...

[George K]

One thing I didn't like about the Yamahas, at least while wearing headphones, the stereo separation was way too big. The treble was REALLY treble, and way off to the right.

It was distracting.

Also, I found the action heavy, even when set "lighter." I think it only has 4 setting, though I may be wrong.

I did like the textured black keys, though.

On a related note, I'm playing with Pianoteq, and one thing I don't like is that it disables the volume control on the piano. It uses the computer's volume setting which is annoying to get to.

I think that will be easily fixed with an in-line headphone volume control.

[kluurs]

Yup - It would certainly be easier for the user to control the volume with the piano. I suspect that in the not-too-distant future, piano manufacturers will figure out that more and more people are using VSTs, and that they should work to standardize a strategy for better integrating them with the instrument.

[George K]

@kluurs a Scotch Command strip of velcro and you can mount this puppy anywhere on the piano that's convenient.

[LuFins Dad]

@kluurs said in My next piano??:

Yup - It would certainly be easier for the user to control the volume with the piano. I suspect that in the not-too-distant future, piano manufacturers will figure out that more and more people are using VSTs, and that they should work to standardize a strategy for better integrating them with the instrument.

A few years back I was given a number by a digital piano designer for Yamaha. The number was how many units would need to be sold to make the cost of adding a feature worth it. I believe that number was 50K, but I can’t remember…

[George K]

Ordered the Roland HP704 today. Should be here in the next week or so.

It'll be a ton of fun, and next time my teacher comes over, perhaps we can have a lesson on that, instead of my Bohemia. I'll be interested to hear her thoughts.

Just spitballing here: I wonder how it would sound with a pair of not-too-expensive speakers instead of the built in speaker array that it ships with. My computer is hooked up to a set of Klipsch Promedia 2.1 speakers. The satellites are appropriately small, and there's plenty of room for the subwoofer someplace in the crowded guest room.

[89th]

@George-K said in My next piano??:

My computer is hooked up to a set of Klipsch Promedia 2.1 speakers. The satellites are appropriately small, and there's plenty of room for the subwoofer someplace in the crowded guest room.

Such great speakers. I had them for years (they came out 21 years ago!) and an audiophile friend of mine highly recommended them for their size and price. Really great quality.

[George K]

Got my Roland yesterday. Took about an hour to unbox it and set it up. D4 and Mrs. George helped with the heavy parts.

It sounds and plays wonderfully. Using the Roland app, you can easily access all the functions of the piano, such as touch, volume etc without having to scroll through the awkward controls on the instrument itself.

It's also easy to select which type of instrument you'll be using.

I have an old MacBook Air that I'm going to hook up to it and, in a while, play around with Pianoteq. But for right now, the built-in functions might be all that I need...or not - it would be nice to play a Hamburg Steinway.

And, just realized this is the 6th "piano" I've owned or had constant access to.

1. My parents' Hobart M. Cable
2. My Baldwin Hamilton
3. My Bohemia
4. My second Bohemia (which I still have)
5. My worn-out Kawai
6. This Roland.

[jon-nyc]

@George-K said in My next piano??:

And, just realized this is the 6th "piano" I've owned or had constant access to.

1. My parents' Hobart M. Cable
2. My Baldwin Hamilton
3. My Bohemia
4. My second Bohemia (which I still have)
5. My worn-out Kawai
6. This Roland.

Interesting. Mine are:

1. My Dad’s Cable Nelson
2. My dad’s Steinway M
3. My Baldwin Hamilton
4. Rental upright in Mexico City (~1yr)
5. Rental upright in Paris (-1yr)
6. Bosendorfer
7. Clav #1
8. Clav #2

[George K]

@jon-nyc said in My next piano??:

Bosendorfer
Clav #1
Clav #2

I won't comment on your omission of the umlaut in Bösendorfer. However two Clavinovas?

[George K]

Oh, forgot to mention. One thing that I always hated about the Kawai was the fact that, sometimes, if I was playing a bit to "aggressively," I would hit the controls in front of the keyboard. All of a sudden, I'd be playing a totally different instrument.

The Roland's cover's track has a detente in it, which positions the cover over the control panel, but still leaves the keyboard exposed. Little things like that are nice to see.

[LuFins Dad]

@George-K @kluurs a small little detail about the fallboard… If you close it, it turns the power off. Opening it turns the power back on. Be aware that if you close it too then open it quickly, you can catch it in the middle of the cycle and it won’t power back up without closing it again and reopening or using the power button.

[jon-nyc]

@George-K said in My next piano??:

I won't comment on your omission of the umlaut in Bösendorfer. However two Clavinovas?

I got the first one in 2005 and felt like upgrading in 2018.

I gave my old one to Joe Kubera’s grandkids. It was a significant upgrade from their digital.

[George K]

So, I've spent about 4-5 hours with it over the last 2 days.

The "built-in" sounds are not bad, not bad at all. The "Grand piano" is closest to what I have, but there's no question that I'm listening to synthetic piano sounds over speakers. It's not bad, not at all, but it's not "real." If I didn't have a grand in the other room, it would be quite satisfactory.

Putting headphones on improves the experience greatly. But it's still not quite right. Again, it's really "good enough" but not the same.

Enter PIanoteq...

I'm still running in "demo mode" - a couple of black keys are disabled and there's a (resettable) time limit.

Well, that just changes everything. Even through speakers, the sound is much more natural than the built-in sounds. I've only played with a couple of the pianos that PIanoteq offers - the New York and Hamburg Steinways, a Steingraeber, Grotrian and Playel. All of them are quite pleasant. Playing the first movement of the "Pathetique" on a 1797 Broadwood is...interesting.

And, with headphones, it's TOTALLY different.

I'm going to invest in this software - it makes the experience SO much better. Now, I have to decide which two "included" instrument packs I want. I can always add more, of course.

[taiwan_girl]

@George-K Congrats on the new piano!!

[George K]

It's been a week now.

First of all, the Roland plays wonderfully. No question that it feels "different" from my Bohemia, but it's not bad, or worse. Just different. It's an adjustment that takes about 10 seconds.

The "textured" keytops are really a nice (ahem) touch as well. The keys never feel slippery.

The built-in piano sounds are fine, especially the "rag-time" upright. Fun to play.

But, with Pianoteq (which I purchased last night) it's a totally different world. I've spent most of my time playing the Hamburg Steinway D. I can really get it to roar if I want to. As I mentioned, I'm working on the Italian Concerto (Bach is fucking HARD), and using the PIanoteq free harpsichord is revelatory. It's SO much less forgiving than a piano would be.

Tons of fun.

My only quibble with it is that the built-in speakers, though adequate, don't give anything close to the experience of listening with even cheap headphones.

I'd like to add some external speakers. Someone (@89th ?) said that I should repurpose my Klipsch 2.1 media speakers from my computer to the piano, and get something for the computer.

I'd like to spend about $200.

Would a soundbar be a consideration? It would sit behind the music desk, so perhaps not.

Thoughts?

[mark]

I have had

1 GEM Pro2 88 key stage piano with weighted keys circa 1988 ( a favorite of Keith Emerson's)

2 Yamaha upright

3 Yamaha Clavinova

4 Yamaha C2 in oak

5 Estonia 190 satin black

5.5 Estonia L-190 gloss black which was a loaner for 6 months or more while my lyre was being rebuilt and waiting for parts, at Codogan's

5 My Original Estonia 190 (for a couple of months)

6 A brand new replacement Estonia L-190 in satin black. I was allowed to pick from 3 of them when Cordogan's decided to replace my original one because I was such a little bitch about the lyre creaking during my Chopin. lol
It was a couple of years between models and I ended up with the new Laul-Estonia redesign

@jon-nyc said in My next piano??:

@George-K said in My next piano??:

And, just realized this is the 6th "piano" I've owned or had constant access to.

1. My parents' Hobart M. Cable
2. My Baldwin Hamilton
3. My Bohemia
4. My second Bohemia (which I still have)
5. My worn-out Kawai
6. This Roland.

Interesting. Mine are:

1. My Dad’s Cable Nelson
2. My dad’s Steinway M
3. My Baldwin Hamilton
4. Rental upright in Mexico City (~1yr)
5. Rental upright in Paris (-1yr)
6. Bosendorfer
7. Clav #1
8. Clav #2

[mark]

Oh, congrats on the new piano George!

[George K]

@George-K said in My next piano??:

I'd like to add some external speakers. Someone (@89th ?) said that I should repurpose my Klipsch 2.1 media speakers from my computer to the piano, and get something for the computer.
I'd like to spend about $200.
Would a soundbar be a consideration? It would sit behind the music desk, so perhaps not.
Thoughts?

Bump???

@mark? @kluurs?

Suggestions?