Trespassers can't hold office

Axtremus · 10 Sept 2022, 17:22

The judge's decision:

https://www.citizensforethics.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/D101CV202200473-griffin.pdf

Skip to the second to last page if you only want to read the Order (with rationale backing the order).

George K · 10 Sept 2022, 17:37

@Axtremus the judge, with no basis, states that Griffin participated in an "insurrection," but he was never convicted of such.

If you want to disqualify him for insurrection, try him, convict him and then render judgment. That didn't happen here.

Jolly · wrote on 10 Sept 2022, 17:37

@George-K said in Trespassers can't hold office:

@Axtremus the judge, with no basis, states that Griffin participated in an "insurrection," but he was never convicted of such.

If you want to disqualify him for insurrection, try him, convict him and then render judgment. That didn't happen here.

The judge simply cannot do that. Period.

Wonder at what level it gets overturned...

Jolly · 7 Sept 2023, 12:24

And...this case is not about the defendant. It's about Trump.

Copper · wrote on 10 Sept 2022, 19:31

@George-K said in Trespassers can't hold office:

If you want to disqualify him for insurrection, try him, convict him and then render judgment. That didn't happen here.

That ended years ago.

Now the mob rules with facebook likes.

Axtremus · 9 Nov 2022, 01:10

Looking forward to seeing how the appeal will play out.

Aqua Letifer · wrote on 11 Sept 2022, 01:48

@Axtremus said in Trespassers can't hold office:

Looking forward to seeing how the appeal will play out.

He's got excellent grounds for it. This isn't "I didn't like the ruling," the judge straightup cannot do this. George is right.

I take the Jan 6 stuff a lot more seriously than, say, Horace or Jolly, but fuck this.

taiwan_girl · 7 Sept 2023, 01:22

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/washington-ethics-watchdog-files-suit-to-try-to-block-trump-from-ballot

Washington-based ethics watchdog filed a lawsuit on Wednesday to try to block Donald Trump from appearing on the ballot in Colorado next year if he wins the Republican presidential nomination, arguing that his actions on Jan 6, 2021, disqualify him from office.

The untested legal strategy, which relies on a reading of the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution, faces long odds, according to legal experts.

The lawsuit cites Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, which bars any person from holding federal or state office who took an “oath... to support the Constitution of the United States” and then “engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same,” according to the statement.

George K · wrote on 7 Sept 2023, 01:22

@taiwan_girl said in Trespassers can't hold office:

long odds

No kidding. What crime has Trump been convicted of?

In fact, none of the persons indicted in Georgia have been even accused of insurrection or rebellion.

Wishful thinking.

George K · 9 Jul 2023, 01:32

By the way, wasn't the ~~show trial~~ 2nd impeachment all about Jan 6th?

You know, the impeachment in which Trump was not convicted?

Jolly · J Jolly 10 Sept 2022, 17:42

@Jolly said in Trespassers can't hold office:

And...this case is not about the defendant. It's about Trump.

As I said.

There is no depth power hungry Demonrats will not sink to, including shredding the Constitution, to keep Trump from running for office.

George K · 9 Jul 2023, 12:35

Followup on Griffin

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/jan-6-rioter-barred-holding-office-insurrection-clause-appeal-dismissed-cowboys-for-trump

Griffin appealed the decision to the New Mexico Supreme Court on Sept. 20; the case was dismissed on Tuesday afternoon on procedural grounds. The Supreme Court ruled that Griffin failed to follow proper appeals procedures.

“This is an affirmation that Section 3 of the 14th Amendment can and should be enforced against all the January 6th insurrectionists who took an oath to defend the Constitution, whether they are current or former officeholders,” CREW senior vice president Donald Sherman said in a statement, “Today is an important day for our democracy.”

Griffin had failed to file a statement of issues – a document that outlines the main issue being debated – within the proper timeframe.

He should have had a better lawyer - one that knew proper appeals procedures.

CREW apparently feels that dismissing this case for procedural errors is democratic.

Jolly · wrote on 7 Sept 2023, 12:41

Wonder if he has an appeal in federal court?

89th · 7 Sept 2023, 12:46

Here's my question. Does a person need to be "charged, tried, convicted" for something to be used as basis for ruling? For example, there's plenty of evidence (note all the videos referenced in the filing) he organized groups and participated in the event.

89th · wrote on 7 Sept 2023, 12:45

I guess I found my own answer. This was addressed on Pages 42-43.

tl;dr is this is a civil, not criminal, trial and Section Three of the 14th amendment doesn't require criminal convictions as a prerequisite for election eligibility.

89th · wrote on 7 Sept 2023, 12:46

I did chuckle at this paragraph near the opening:

Jolly · 8 89th 7 Sept 2023, 12:44

@89th said in Trespassers can't hold office:

Here's my question. Does a person need to be "charged, tried, convicted" for something to be used as basis for ruling? For example, there's plenty of evidence (note all the videos referenced in the filing) he organized groups and participated in the event.

I think you're guilty of insurrection.

Good. Now you don't have to worry about ever running for elected office.

89th · wrote on 7 Sept 2023, 13:05

I mean, if you were a judge and saw a video of me doing it, then I guess you're right.

Jolly · wrote on 7 Sept 2023, 13:07

You can't do that in my version of the United States. You cannot take away a person's rights without due process.

89th · 7 Sept 2023, 14:22

It seems this is a civil matter so due process is being followed, no?

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Trespassers can't hold office