Mar-a-Lago raided
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@Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@Copper said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@kluurs said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Her email server was a private server intended for non-governmental information transmission.
Correct, except for the classified government documents.
The CIA explained this.
The FBI, James Comey, explained a little differently, he said that she was "extremely careless".
And by destroying the data she violated federal law.
Why do you guys bother lying about this? It is well documented, everyone here is familiar with it.
They're doing it, because they have to. If it can be shown that other government officials have not lived up to the letter of the law, the case against Trump looks more like persecution via selective law enforcement.
No, he can't just claim a bunch of stuff was declassified if there's no record of him doing so. He's not President for Life, as much as you might wish it.
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"It’s possible, I guess, that he was selling nuclear documents off the back of a truck to the Saudis in return for lucrative sponsorship deals at his golf courses and mega-bucks investments in Jared Kushner’s new hedge fund. But the more likely explanation is that he simply felt entitled to take it, was aggrieved when the feds asked for it back, and decided to make a whole thing out of it unnecessarily because that’s just who he is. That’d be a weird reason to risk committing a federal crime but he’s a weird guy."
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The President can make a simple statement to the Chief of Staff, "Any classified papers I take to my personal quarters shall be considered declassified".
At that point, they are.
Now, we can argue about T-crossing and I-dotting all we wish, but it really is that simple.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@Axtremus said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Copies of communications devices were destroyed with hammers. With hammers.
Physical destruction of electronic data storage media to safeguard information security and data privacy is a standard practice. As long as the destruction does not happen after one has been legally ordered to preserve the data, physical destruction of electronic data storage media, be it with a hammer or other means, is neither illegal nor extraordinary.
It is if you were not supposed to have it, or have it on that medium, in the first place.
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@Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The President can make a simple statement to the Chief of Staff, "Any classified papers I take to my personal quarters shall be considered declassified".
At that point, they are.
Now, we can argue about T-crossing and I-dotting all we wish, but it really is that simple.
If you'd like to read part of the SCOTUS opinion...
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/484/518/
"The President, after all, is the 'Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States.' U.S. Const., Art. II, § 2. His authority to classify and control access to information bearing on national security...flows primarily from this constitutional investment of power in the President, and exists quite apart from any explicit congressional grant."
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
Like I wrote in Post #317 of this thread:
"We’ve [unidentified source] told him there’s a process and not following it could be a problem but he didn’t care because he thinks this stuff is dumb,” the source said. “His attitude is that he is the president. He is in charge of the country and therefore national security. So he decides.”
Bradley Moss, a lawyer who specializes in national security issues, said, "That's not how it works."
"Trump could say we're declassifying this until he's blue in the face, but no one is allowed to touch those records until the markings are addressed," said Moss, a frequent Trump critic on Twitter.
"In the current dispute, the apparent lack of a paper trail showing that Trump declassified the documents before he left office could be a problem for the former president, said Stephen Vladeck, a University of Texas School of Law professor who specializes in national security." -
@Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The President can make a simple statement to the Chief of Staff, "Any classified papers I take to my personal quarters shall be considered declassified".
At that point, they are.
Now, we can argue about T-crossing and I-dotting all we wish, but it really is that simple.
If you'd like to read part of the SCOTUS opinion...
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/484/518/
"The President, after all, is the 'Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States.' U.S. Const., Art. II, § 2. His authority to classify and control access to information bearing on national security...flows primarily from this constitutional investment of power in the President, and exists quite apart from any explicit congressional grant."
Now that doesn’t quite address the question or requirement of procedure does it?
In fact it is a distractor from the argument of procedure.
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The President may set whatever procedure he wants, if I read that correctly.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
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“Little by little I am learning the art of being quite content by doing very little slowly” ~ Lionel Hardcastle
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@Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The President may set whatever procedure he wants, if I read that correctly.
Really now? I suggest you are not reading that ruling in its entirety to arrive at an accurate understanding. Prove me wrong.
Let's go back to 2009 and Obama's EO, which exempts the POTUS and VP:
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
Let's go back to 2009 and Obama's EO, which exempts the POTUS and VP
Here, knock yourself out:
executive order 13526 exemption president vice president
For simplicity sake you might also want to try to prove your statement by going here:
https://www.justice.gov/oip/page/file/1324436/download
Don’t think you’ll find it
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Again, these lay out policies and procedures for people who are below the office of the Chief Executive.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
Yes, but the discussion is about the Chief Executive not others in or below his office.
Perhaps you do not understand the question.
Let me put to you more simply: Show us where it explicitly states the POTUS can declassify T.S. documents without telling anyone or leaving any sort of paper trail. I suggest you cannot.
“Little by little I am learning the art of being quite content by doing very little slowly” ~ Lionel Hardcastle
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Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.
Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2009”
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@Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Yes, but the discussion is about the Chief Executive not others in or below his office.
Perhaps you do not understand the question.
Let me put to you more simply: Show us where it explicitly states the POTUS can declassify T.S. documents without telling anyone or leaving any sort of paper trail. I suggest you cannot.
Show us explicitly where he cannot.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.
Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2007”
Nope, it only gives POTUS the ability to declassify things while he is in office.
As an example...President John Doe is sitting at the Resolute Desk and a widget-expert professor without a TS clearance is brought in to brief the President. The President reaches onto the desk and hands the prof a TS document on a heretofore unknown widget created by DARPA, and asks him to comment.
By his actions, the President has just declassified that document.
I think a lot of this boils down as to when Trump did or did not declassify the documents. I also think it makes a difference what documents they are.
And just as an aside, Trump now says he thinks they took his passport. If so, that's just chickenshit, and speaks volumes.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Let me put to you more simply: Show us where it explicitly states the POTUS can declassify T.S. documents without telling anyone or leaving any sort of paper trail. I suggest you cannot.
Show us explicitly where he cannot.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/aug/11/could-trump-argue-declassified-documents/
"Merely proclaiming a document or group of documents declassified and doing nothing more would not suffice," Bradley Moss, a Washington, D.C.-based lawyer who works on national security cases, told PolitiFact.Follow-through is required.
"He had to identify the specific documents he was declassifying, he needed to memorialize the order in writing for bureaucratic and historical purposes, and he needed to have staff physically modify the classification markings on the documents themselves," Moss said. "Until that was done, the documents, per the security classification procedures, still have to be handled, transmitted and stored as if they were classified."
Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka
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@Catseye3 said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Let me put to you more simply: Show us where it explicitly states the POTUS can declassify T.S. documents without telling anyone or leaving any sort of paper trail. I suggest you cannot.
Show us explicitly where he cannot.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/aug/11/could-trump-argue-declassified-documents/
"Merely proclaiming a document or group of documents declassified and doing nothing more would not suffice," Bradley Moss, a Washington, D.C.-based lawyer who works on national security cases, told PolitiFact.Follow-through is required.
"He had to identify the specific documents he was declassifying, he needed to memorialize the order in writing for bureaucratic and historical purposes, and he needed to have staff physically modify the classification markings on the documents themselves," Moss said. "Until that was done, the documents, per the security classification procedures, still have to be handled, transmitted and stored as if they were classified."
That's an opinion piece.
You know what they say about opinions...
