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The New Coffee Room

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  2. General Discussion
  3. Griner

Griner

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
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  • LuFins DadL Offline
    LuFins DadL Offline
    LuFins Dad
    wrote on last edited by
    #23

    In the meantime nobody is even mentioning Mark Fogel.

    The Brad

    George KG 1 Reply Last reply
    • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

      In the meantime nobody is even mentioning Mark Fogel.

      George KG Offline
      George KG Offline
      George K
      wrote on last edited by
      #24

      @LuFins-Dad said in Griner:

      In the meantime nobody is even mentioning Mark Fogel.

      He and Whelan don't check the "correct" boxes.

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • CopperC Offline
        CopperC Offline
        Copper
        wrote on last edited by
        #25

        Great, another drug addict on the streets.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • George KG Offline
          George KG Offline
          George K
          wrote on last edited by George K
          #26

          A Terrible Concession to Putin’s Russia

          Today you’re going to hear a lot of people defending the Biden administration’s deal to secure the release of Brittney Griner by giving Viktor Bout, the world’s most notorious arms dealer with a metaphorical ocean of blood on his hands, back to Russia. (I called the then-potential deal a “moral abomination” back in August.) Not securing the release of Paul Whelan makes this bad deal even worse.

          A lot of defenders of the deal will contend that critics are indifferent to the suffering of Griner, which is a dodge and a smear. The question is not, “is it in the interest of the U.S. government to secure the release of Brittney Griner?” That’s a silly question; the U.S. never wants to see its citizens unfairly detained under brutal conditions on trumped-up charges. The question is, what is an appropriate concession to secure the release of those citizens, and does the payment of the ransom make future problems like this more likely?

          It is hard to overstate the crimes of Bout; if any human being deserved to rot in prison for the rest of his days, it’s him. Longtime State Department official Witney Schneidman, who tracked Bout delivering arms to both sides of the Angola civil war, called Bout “the personification of evil.” From the end of the Cold War until his arrest in 2008, if there was an arms embargo, Bout flouted it — Liberia, Afghanistan, Sierra Leone, Congo, Libya. Whenever there was a dictator or warlord who needed weapons to mow down his enemies or suppress a suffering population, Bout was there to make a profit off of bloodshed. He earned his nickname, “the Merchant of Death.”)

          After all, if the U.S. government is willing to release Viktor Bout — at one point, the second-most-wanted man after Osama bin Laden! — under enough pressure, then the U.S. government will release anyone under enough pressure: terrorists like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, spies like Robert Hanssen.

          It is likely that one of the reasons the Biden administration went ahead with this deal was their confidence that enough allies would choose to characterize it as a major diplomatic victory, not an epic concession to a hostile state that is likely to try to use the same strongarm tactics again in the future.

          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • MikM Offline
            MikM Offline
            Mik
            wrote on last edited by
            #27

            Exactly what I mean by what did it cost us. Bout is just the beginning.

            "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

            1 Reply Last reply
            • George KG Offline
              George KG Offline
              George K
              wrote on last edited by
              #28

              Screenshot 2022-12-08 at 12.04.56 PM.png

              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

              MikM 1 Reply Last reply
              • George KG George K

                Screenshot 2022-12-08 at 12.04.56 PM.png

                MikM Offline
                MikM Offline
                Mik
                wrote on last edited by
                #29

                @George-K 😁

                "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

                1 Reply Last reply
                • George KG Offline
                  George KG Offline
                  George K
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #30

                  https://www.foreign.senate.gov/press/dem/release/chairman-menendez-statement-on-the-release-of-brittney-griner

                  Written (or signed-off on) by Menendez (D-NJ)

                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                    Well to be fair I have no idea whether the Russians were really against releasing Paul Whelan or if they only had one and chose Griner.

                    The comments from Whelan’s family suggest the former, they said Biden did the right thing trading for Griner rather than hold out for a deal that can’t be done.

                    AxtremusA Offline
                    AxtremusA Offline
                    Axtremus
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #31

                    @jon-nyc said in Griner:

                    The comments from Whelan’s family suggest the former, they said Biden did the right thing trading for Griner rather than hold out for a deal that can’t be done.

                    Just came across this: https://people.com/sports/paul-whelans-family-devastated-hes-in-russia-but-happy-for-brittney-griner/

                    LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
                    • AxtremusA Axtremus

                      @jon-nyc said in Griner:

                      The comments from Whelan’s family suggest the former, they said Biden did the right thing trading for Griner rather than hold out for a deal that can’t be done.

                      Just came across this: https://people.com/sports/paul-whelans-family-devastated-hes-in-russia-but-happy-for-brittney-griner/

                      LuFins DadL Offline
                      LuFins DadL Offline
                      LuFins Dad
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #32

                      @Axtremus said in Griner:

                      @jon-nyc said in Griner:

                      The comments from Whelan’s family suggest the former, they said Biden did the right thing trading for Griner rather than hold out for a deal that can’t be done.

                      Just came across this: https://people.com/sports/paul-whelans-family-devastated-hes-in-russia-but-happy-for-brittney-griner/

                      Great… What about Fogel?

                      Whalen, there is something to the story. Too many weird actions and a shaky history on his part. Fogel, though? Why aren’t people upset about him?

                      The Brad

                      George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                      • LuFins DadL Offline
                        LuFins DadL Offline
                        LuFins Dad
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #33

                        Nice to know the government places equivalent value on a stoner, lesbian, professional athlete of color and an arms dealer that has been called the definition of evil…

                        The Brad

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                          @Axtremus said in Griner:

                          @jon-nyc said in Griner:

                          The comments from Whelan’s family suggest the former, they said Biden did the right thing trading for Griner rather than hold out for a deal that can’t be done.

                          Just came across this: https://people.com/sports/paul-whelans-family-devastated-hes-in-russia-but-happy-for-brittney-griner/

                          Great… What about Fogel?

                          Whalen, there is something to the story. Too many weird actions and a shaky history on his part. Fogel, though? Why aren’t people upset about him?

                          George KG Offline
                          George KG Offline
                          George K
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #34

                          @LuFins-Dad said in Griner:

                          Whalen, there is something to the story. Too many weird actions and a shaky history on his part.

                          I looked up the Wikipedia story on him.

                          $80K in cash in Moscow? OK, then.

                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • LuFins DadL Offline
                            LuFins DadL Offline
                            LuFins Dad
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #35

                            Is it appropriate to refer to those dishonorably discharged as vets?

                            The Brad

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • George KG Offline
                              George KG Offline
                              George K
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #36

                              Pretty damning description and story.

                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Whelan_(security_director)

                              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • RenaudaR Offline
                                RenaudaR Offline
                                Renauda
                                wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                #37

                                Truth be known the US probably wanted or was negotiating to barter Bout for Snowden, but Putin conveniently granted Snowden Russian citizenship in order to preempt any chance of that deal to succeed. Putin thus turned the tables so it would be an extradition case. In the absence of a bilateral extradition treaty, the Russians would never extradite one of their own to the US.

                                It then became a choice of take Griner or nothing.

                                Elbows up!

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • jon-nycJ Offline
                                  jon-nycJ Offline
                                  jon-nyc
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #38

                                  Seen on Twitter:

                                  “This is the first WNBA trade I’ve ever paid attention to”

                                  They’ll end up, after a lot of drama, with the same formula they use every time they have a trifecta: take away health care and food assistance from low income families and use the money to fund tax cuts for their donors.

                                  George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • MikM Offline
                                    MikM Offline
                                    Mik
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #39

                                    This was kind of interesting.

                                    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/brittney-griner-s-life-inside-a-russian-prison-revealed-in-newly-released-photos/ar-AA154qUJ?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=fce619697f4f4436955695066206aa57

                                    "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • George KG Offline
                                      George KG Offline
                                      George K
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #40

                                      How long before she gets a book deal and a Netflix miniseries?

                                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • JollyJ Offline
                                        JollyJ Offline
                                        Jolly
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #41

                                        Less than 90 days on the book deal.

                                        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • George KG Offline
                                          George KG Offline
                                          George K
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #42

                                          "The best deal since Bowe Bergdahl."

                                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

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