Texas shooting.
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Perhaps there should be different classes of guns. Similar to you needing a CDL to drive an 18-wheeler, maybe there could be stricter rules on who is allowed to get an AR-15 or other high powered or automatic weapons? For example, needing a more thorough background check, passing a gun handling test, and strict storage laws. Regardless of school shootings, I'd imagine those are pretty pragmatic ideas.
wrote on 26 May 2022, 17:50 last edited by@89th said in Texas shooting.:
Perhaps there should be different classes of guns. Similar to you needing a CDL to drive an 18-wheeler, maybe there could be stricter rules on who is allowed to get an AR-15 or other high powered or automatic weapons? For example, needing a more thorough background check, passing a gun handling test, and strict storage laws. Regardless of school shootings, I'd imagine those are pretty pragmatic ideas.
Those aren't bad and they are probably workable.
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The nationwide public service campaign to quit smoking launched by the feds (maybe in private-public partnership) was pretty successful. Maybe something like that, to get the public on board. It couldn't be done by the feds, but maybe something like that sponsored by a collection of private and/or corporate monies would yield some results.
wrote on 26 May 2022, 20:06 last edited by@Catseye3 said in Texas shooting.:
The nationwide public service campaign to quit smoking launched by the feds (maybe in private-public partnership) was pretty successful. Maybe something like that, to get the public on board. It couldn't be done by the feds, but maybe something like that sponsored by a collection of private and/or corporate monies would yield some results.
I'm going to riff off of this, but it's going to be in an unusual way...
I've carried a rifle to school many times. Used to run our Outdoor Ed Club trapline that started across the road from our rural school. I'd go down to my car at 2nd hour, shrug into some light coveralls, grab my .22 and walk across the school grounds. The rule was I couldn't load until I crossed the road into the woods.
That was another time and day. The difference is that today guns have acquired a mystique and yes, we didn't play games back then where we mowed people down indiscriminately.then
Perhaps we need to do a few things that some would consider outrageous. May-be, we need to introduce gun safety programs into school. May-be we need to quit glamorizing death, both through the first-shooter games and body-count action movies that kids see...May-be, we need to require an adult lock on R rated movies.
May-be, we need to bring rifle programs back to school. May-be, we need to emphasize ROTC programs in high schools, with the levels of responsibility and accountability those programs have embedded in their core.
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wrote on 26 May 2022, 21:55 last edited by
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:
@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
The Right has offered. The Left has refused.
To ban video games, yes I know. It's like they don't think Call of Duty caused all this.
Quit being a dumb shit. You've got ideas. Trot them out.
wrote on 26 May 2022, 21:57 last edited by@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:
@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
The Right has offered. The Left has refused.
To ban video games, yes I know. It's like they don't think Call of Duty caused all this.
Quit being a dumb shit. You've got ideas. Trot them out.
Adopt Japan's screening process. I'm as serious about that as I'm sure you're going to get high blood pressure over anything even within the ballpark of gun control.
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wrote on 26 May 2022, 22:15 last edited by
@Mik said in Texas shooting.:
There may be more to blame than guns here.
I wonder to what degree officers are expected to put themselves in a direct line of danger in order to stop an existing crime. I suspect these sorts of things are delineated somewhere. Which is not to say individuals or groups of officers might choose to act more like their movie counterparts, but that's probably not in the job description.
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wrote on 27 May 2022, 00:35 last edited by Renauda
@Mik said in Texas shooting.:
There may be more to blame than guns here.
Police have their own strict rules of engagement and protocols in instances like this. Those protocols may not fit what the public wants in the heat of the moment or facilitate outcomes that please the public and politicians. I am sure the police did the very best they could under the circumstances with the information they had at the time.
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@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:
@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
The Right has offered. The Left has refused.
To ban video games, yes I know. It's like they don't think Call of Duty caused all this.
Quit being a dumb shit. You've got ideas. Trot them out.
Adopt Japan's screening process. I'm as serious about that as I'm sure you're going to get high blood pressure over anything even within the ballpark of gun control.
wrote on 27 May 2022, 03:29 last edited by Jolly@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:
@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:
@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
The Right has offered. The Left has refused.
To ban video games, yes I know. It's like they don't think Call of Duty caused all this.
Quit being a dumb shit. You've got ideas. Trot them out.
Adopt Japan's screening process. I'm as serious about that as I'm sure you're going to get high blood pressure over anything even within the ballpark of gun control.
Do you think that's going to fly in America? Even on the Left side of the political aisle?
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wrote on 27 May 2022, 12:26 last edited by
The cops handcuffed a mom trying to save her kid.
https://reason.com/2022/05/26/uvalde-shooting-texas-cops-handcuff-parents-killer/
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:
@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:
@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
The Right has offered. The Left has refused.
To ban video games, yes I know. It's like they don't think Call of Duty caused all this.
Quit being a dumb shit. You've got ideas. Trot them out.
Adopt Japan's screening process. I'm as serious about that as I'm sure you're going to get high blood pressure over anything even within the ballpark of gun control.
Do you think that's going to fly in America? Even on the Left side of the political aisle?
wrote on 27 May 2022, 12:38 last edited by@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:
@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:
@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
The Right has offered. The Left has refused.
To ban video games, yes I know. It's like they don't think Call of Duty caused all this.
Quit being a dumb shit. You've got ideas. Trot them out.
Adopt Japan's screening process. I'm as serious about that as I'm sure you're going to get high blood pressure over anything even within the ballpark of gun control.
Do you think that's going to fly in America? Even on the Left side of the political aisle?
I'm personally done with schools getting shot up. Since that's currently "what flies," fuck what flies. You don't get to be precious about cultural norms that habitually lead to kids getting gunned down. I don't care how "rare" Patrick Bateman over there thinks it is.
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wrote on 27 May 2022, 13:17 last edited by
The NRA and its huge convention in Texas this weekend:
The NRA said in a statement this week that the shooting "was the act of a lone, deranged criminal."
"As we gather in Houston, we will reflect on these events, pray for the victims, recognize our patriotic members, and pledge to redouble our commitment to making our schools secure," it said.
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While the NRA has advocated for more "good guys with guns" as the best way to stop mass shooters, guns are banned in the convention center's assembly hall Friday because of Trump's presence. The NRA said that according to the Secret Service magnetometers will be on-site and that “firearms, firearm accessories, knives, and other items WILL NOT BE PERMITTED in the General Assembly Hall.”
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@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:
@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:
@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
The Right has offered. The Left has refused.
To ban video games, yes I know. It's like they don't think Call of Duty caused all this.
Quit being a dumb shit. You've got ideas. Trot them out.
Adopt Japan's screening process. I'm as serious about that as I'm sure you're going to get high blood pressure over anything even within the ballpark of gun control.
Do you think that's going to fly in America? Even on the Left side of the political aisle?
I'm personally done with schools getting shot up. Since that's currently "what flies," fuck what flies. You don't get to be precious about cultural norms that habitually lead to kids getting gunned down. I don't care how "rare" Patrick Bateman over there thinks it is.
wrote on 27 May 2022, 13:20 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:
I'm personally done with schools getting shot up. Since that's currently "what flies," fuck what flies. You don't get to be precious about cultural norms that habitually lead to kids getting gunned down. I don't care how "rare" Patrick Bateman over there thinks it is.
Pretty sure everyone is done with schools getting shot up.
I've seen plenty of friends do the typical post-horrible event reaction of posting on social media about "enough is enough" without really offering ideas. Saw the same thing after George Floyd. What will they do, though? Probably nothing...probably vote the same way in November.
School shootings are incredibly rare, despite what the media might make society believe. Further, most of the shootings would happen regardless of the "solutions" I've seen thrown around. Yes it's natural to be upset (with a 1 and 4 year old, believe me, it hits harder now) and want to do something. But let's be pragmatic about what should be done, then can it be done, what effect it'll have... then let's go for it.
Kids are 40-100x more likely to die heading to school than in school. I saw a friend saying he is so stressed about his kid being in school now... was he not stressed about the significantly higher likelihood of his kid being killed going TO school?
Anyway... the USA isn't unique, either. Per capita I think countries like Norway and France have substantially higher rates of mass shooting fatalities.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:
I'm personally done with schools getting shot up. Since that's currently "what flies," fuck what flies. You don't get to be precious about cultural norms that habitually lead to kids getting gunned down. I don't care how "rare" Patrick Bateman over there thinks it is.
Pretty sure everyone is done with schools getting shot up.
I've seen plenty of friends do the typical post-horrible event reaction of posting on social media about "enough is enough" without really offering ideas. Saw the same thing after George Floyd. What will they do, though? Probably nothing...probably vote the same way in November.
School shootings are incredibly rare, despite what the media might make society believe. Further, most of the shootings would happen regardless of the "solutions" I've seen thrown around. Yes it's natural to be upset (with a 1 and 4 year old, believe me, it hits harder now) and want to do something. But let's be pragmatic about what should be done, then can it be done, what effect it'll have... then let's go for it.
Kids are 40-100x more likely to die heading to school than in school. I saw a friend saying he is so stressed about his kid being in school now... was he not stressed about the significantly higher likelihood of his kid being killed going TO school?
Anyway... the USA isn't unique, either. Per capita I think countries like Norway and France have substantially higher rates of mass shooting fatalities.
wrote on 27 May 2022, 13:24 last edited by@89th said in Texas shooting.:
School shootings are incredibly rare, despite what the media might make society believe.
On Faceypage someone posted that the US has had more than 200 school shootings. That's patently false, of course, and the definition of "school shooting" includes any shooting in the vicinity of the school, including gang violence.
Per capita I think countries like Norway and France have substantially higher rates of mass shooting fatalities.
Not aware of that. Got a source?
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@89th said in Texas shooting.:
School shootings are incredibly rare, despite what the media might make society believe.
On Faceypage someone posted that the US has had more than 200 school shootings. That's patently false, of course, and the definition of "school shooting" includes any shooting in the vicinity of the school, including gang violence.
Per capita I think countries like Norway and France have substantially higher rates of mass shooting fatalities.
Not aware of that. Got a source?
wrote on 27 May 2022, 13:28 last edited by@George-K said in Texas shooting.:
@89th said in Texas shooting.:
School shootings are incredibly rare, despite what the media might make society believe.
On Faceypage someone posted that the US has had more than 200 school shootings. That's patently false, of course, and the definition of "school shooting" includes any shooting in the vicinity of the school, including gang violence.
Per capita I think countries like Norway and France have substantially higher rates of mass shooting fatalities.
Not aware of that. Got a source?
Yeah I think there have been maybe 10 school shootings in the last 10 years with 2+ (or 4+?) victims. Not exactly 200 in 6 months.
For the other stat, it was from something like this, although the data is only through 2015 it seems: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/mass-shootings-by-country
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@89th said in Texas shooting.:
School shootings are incredibly rare, despite what the media might make society believe.
On Faceypage someone posted that the US has had more than 200 school shootings. That's patently false, of course, and the definition of "school shooting" includes any shooting in the vicinity of the school, including gang violence.
Per capita I think countries like Norway and France have substantially higher rates of mass shooting fatalities.
Not aware of that. Got a source?
wrote on 27 May 2022, 13:39 last edited byPer capita I think countries like Norway and France have substantially higher rates of mass shooting fatalities.
Not aware of that. Got a source?
This is the horseshit that's probably being trotted out here.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/mass-shootings-by-countryDoes the United States have more mass shootings than other countries? It depends on the data.
Exactly how mass shootings in the U.S. compare to those in other countries is a highly disputed subject. In a widely publicized study originally released in 2015, the pro-gun nonprofit Crime Prevention Research Center (CPRC) compared the annual number of mass shooting deaths per million people in the U.S. to that of Canada and several European countries from 2009 to 2015. The result? Norway led the world with 1.88 deaths per million, followed by Serbia, France, and Macedonia. Where did the U.S. rank? 11th place.
As eye-opening as the CRPC study was, many statisticians believe the reason the results seem so counterintuitive is that they’re incorrect. One of the more detailed analyses appeared on the fact-checking website snopes.com and concluded that the CRPC report used “inappropriate statistical methods” which led to misleading results.According to the snopes analysis, one of those inappropriate methods was the leaving out of the many European countries that had not experienced a single mass shooting between 2009-2015. This data would not have changed the position of the U.S. on the list, but its absence could lead a reader to believe—incorrectly—that the U.S. experienced fewer mass shooting fatalities per capita than all but a handful of countries in Europe. A more important oversight, again according to snopes, was the report's use of average deaths per capita instead of a more stable metric. Thanks to the smaller populations of most European countries, individual events in those countries had statistically oversized influence and warped the results. For example, Norway’s world-leading annual rate was due to a single devastating 2011 event, in which far-right extremist Anders Behring Breivik gunned down 69 people at a summer camp on the island of Utøya. Norway had zero mass shootings in 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015.
An easy, though arguably insensitive, way to illustrate the shortcomings of this approach is to imagine it applied to the 9/11 attacks, which killed 2,977 people in the United States on a single day in 2001. Running that data through the CRPC formula yields the following statistic: Plane hijackings by terrorists caused an average of 297.7 deaths per year in the U.S. from 2001-2010. This is mathematically accurate, but it paints a badly distorted picture of what actually happened during those ten years.
In addition, the CRPC study went a step further and computed average annual deaths per capita. Critics argue this further warps the data, because Norway’s population is a fraction of the U.S. population. As a result, Norway’s death rate came out more than 20 times higher than that of the U.S.—which tallied 66 deaths in 2012 alone (nearly matching Norway's total for the full study) and averaged at least one death per month for the entire seven-year data set.
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wrote on 27 May 2022, 14:37 last edited by
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wrote on 27 May 2022, 14:38 last edited by
Thousands are killed every year by other drivers who are drunk. This is significantly higher than those killed by active shooters (average of 3 per month). If we want to save lives, it would be logical to require breathalyzers in all vehicles...would have much more of an impact on saving lives than background checks or waiting periods when buying guns.
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wrote on 27 May 2022, 14:51 last edited by
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Thousands are killed every year by other drivers who are drunk. This is significantly higher than those killed by active shooters (average of 3 per month). If we want to save lives, it would be logical to require breathalyzers in all vehicles...would have much more of an impact on saving lives than background checks or waiting periods when buying guns.
wrote on 27 May 2022, 14:58 last edited by@89th said in Texas shooting.:
Thousands are killed every year by other drivers who are drunk. This is significantly higher than those killed by active shooters (average of 3 per month). If we want to save lives, it would be logical to require breathalyzers in all vehicles...would have much more of an impact on saving lives than background checks or waiting periods when buying guns.
I seem to think at least one person on TNCR has said the current drink driving laws are overly restrictive and that they can drive perfectly safely when they're over the limit.
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@89th said in Texas shooting.:
Thousands are killed every year by other drivers who are drunk. This is significantly higher than those killed by active shooters (average of 3 per month). If we want to save lives, it would be logical to require breathalyzers in all vehicles...would have much more of an impact on saving lives than background checks or waiting periods when buying guns.
I seem to think at least one person on TNCR has said the current drink driving laws are overly restrictive and that they can drive perfectly safely when they're over the limit.
wrote on 27 May 2022, 15:03 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Texas shooting.:
@89th said in Texas shooting.:
Thousands are killed every year by other drivers who are drunk. This is significantly higher than those killed by active shooters (average of 3 per month). If we want to save lives, it would be logical to require breathalyzers in all vehicles...would have much more of an impact on saving lives than background checks or waiting periods when buying guns.
I seem to think at least one person on TNCR has said the current drink driving laws are overly restrictive and that they can drive perfectly safely when they're over the limit.
Not sure what that has to do with the point.
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wrote on 27 May 2022, 15:06 last edited by
So Red Flag Laws.. as David French proposes...
In a nation of 330MM, red flag laws might prevent some crimes.
That is of course extremely important, but also presumably unknowable.School shootings / mass shootings are statistically minuscule but present a very high degree of damage with a very low rate of occurrence and likelihood.
So I’m inclined to support red flag laws, as a matter of due process for removing rights in the public interest, but it’s not going to stop the next event that happens.
