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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Fertility clinics in some red states

Fertility clinics in some red states

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  • 8 89th
    4 May 2022, 17:23

    @jon-nyc said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

    They make many more embryos than they need and there are usually some left over that are eventually disposed of.

    Maybe they could get by on a technicality by keeping them frozen forever.

    We started with like 14 embryos of which 7 were viable candidates for IVF... we had 5 failed IVFs, 1 successful, so we have 1 remaining right now. We pay like $600 a year to keep it on ice. TBD if we will attempt an IVF transfer, I'd imagine we will since it's the last one, but it would be a harder question if we had a few left.

    J Online
    J Online
    jon-nyc
    wrote on 4 May 2022, 17:38 last edited by
    #16

    @89th imagine if they had to do one at a time to avoid creating one that later would not be implanted.

    Sounds like it would be a lot of sessions in many cases and even less affordable.

    Thank you for your attention to this matter.

    8 1 Reply Last reply 5 May 2022, 03:15
    • J Online
      J Online
      jon-nyc
      wrote on 4 May 2022, 17:40 last edited by
      #17

      Or maybe they could still give hormones to the woman to induce multiple eggs and freeze them unfertilized, then thaw them one by one for fertilization and implant.

      Thank you for your attention to this matter.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • J Online
        J Online
        jon-nyc
        wrote on 4 May 2022, 17:53 last edited by
        #18

        Interesting stats from a 2019 paper. About 1.6% of births are IVF births. Some 600,000 embryos are currently frozen and about 25% of them get abandoned when the parents stop paying the bill.

        Thank you for your attention to this matter.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • J Online
          J Online
          jon-nyc
          wrote on 4 May 2022, 17:55 last edited by jon-nyc 5 Apr 2022, 17:56
          #19

          It will be interesting to see how MO and other states handle the frozen ones.

          Do they have a right to a womb? In the case of a donated egg, whose womb do they hold the claim on?

          Will the state seek volunteers, essentially put them up for adoption?

          Thank you for your attention to this matter.

          I 1 Reply Last reply 4 May 2022, 18:05
          • A Aqua Letifer
            4 May 2022, 17:38

            @Ivorythumper said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

            @Aqua-Letifer said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

            @Ivorythumper said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

            I think it does certainly show the problem of IVF, that human beings can be frozen in an early stage of development and later reanimated, and that there are moral implications to this practice.

            How so? Does the Church have a problem with children who are conceived via IVF?

            The Church reprobates IVF as a practice, but does not have any problem with the children who are conceived by IVF.

            The moral problem is the indignity to the human person who is held in suspension for the preference of the parents.

            What does "preference" mean in this context?

            I Offline
            I Offline
            Ivorythumper
            wrote on 4 May 2022, 18:04 last edited by
            #20

            @Aqua-Letifer said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

            @Ivorythumper said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

            @Aqua-Letifer said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

            @Ivorythumper said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

            I think it does certainly show the problem of IVF, that human beings can be frozen in an early stage of development and later reanimated, and that there are moral implications to this practice.

            How so? Does the Church have a problem with children who are conceived via IVF?

            The Church reprobates IVF as a practice, but does not have any problem with the children who are conceived by IVF.

            The moral problem is the indignity to the human person who is held in suspension for the preference of the parents.

            What does "preference" mean in this context?

            Well, preference is my term.

            First, I want to tread carefully here, respectful of those who are or have been involved in IVF or have experienced the frustration, disappointment, heartbreak, and suffering of not being able to conceive naturally. I speak from personal experience, and have grappled morally with the Church's teaching.

            Preference is deciding when and if that conceived offspring is to be allowed to join the family and enter into the mutual love relationship of family with his or her parents.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • J jon-nyc
              4 May 2022, 17:55

              It will be interesting to see how MO and other states handle the frozen ones.

              Do they have a right to a womb? In the case of a donated egg, whose womb do they hold the claim on?

              Will the state seek volunteers, essentially put them up for adoption?

              I Offline
              I Offline
              Ivorythumper
              wrote on 4 May 2022, 18:05 last edited by
              #21

              @jon-nyc said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

              It will be interesting to see how MO and other states handle the frozen ones.

              Do they have a right to a womb? In the case of a donated egg, whose womb do they hold the claim on?

              Will the state seek volunteers, essentially put them up for adoption?

              You're asking all the right questions.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • M Away
                M Away
                Mik
                wrote on 4 May 2022, 18:14 last edited by
                #22

                Off topic somewhat, but I would like to see a simultaneous push to expand and streamline our adoption machinery in this country. There will be a lot of babies born that are not wanted.

                "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

                J 1 Reply Last reply 5 May 2022, 11:48
                • J Online
                  J Online
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on 4 May 2022, 18:24 last edited by
                  #23

                  I’ve seen estimates that the number of abortions will decrease only by about 10-15% since abortion is more common in states that are abortion friendly.

                  Also read that they are disproportionately obtained by black women.

                  So I’m guessing more black babies in red states is what we should expect.

                  Thank you for your attention to this matter.

                  D C J 3 Replies Last reply 4 May 2022, 18:52
                  • J jon-nyc
                    4 May 2022, 18:24

                    I’ve seen estimates that the number of abortions will decrease only by about 10-15% since abortion is more common in states that are abortion friendly.

                    Also read that they are disproportionately obtained by black women.

                    So I’m guessing more black babies in red states is what we should expect.

                    D Offline
                    D Offline
                    Doctor Phibes
                    wrote on 4 May 2022, 18:52 last edited by
                    #24

                    @jon-nyc said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

                    So I’m guessing more black babies in red states is what we should expect.

                    Which could conceivably (pun intended) come back to bite Republicans in the ass

                    I was only joking

                    A I 2 Replies Last reply 4 May 2022, 19:27
                    • D Doctor Phibes
                      4 May 2022, 18:52

                      @jon-nyc said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

                      So I’m guessing more black babies in red states is what we should expect.

                      Which could conceivably (pun intended) come back to bite Republicans in the ass

                      A Offline
                      A Offline
                      Aqua Letifer
                      wrote on 4 May 2022, 19:27 last edited by
                      #25

                      @Doctor-Phibes said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

                      @jon-nyc said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

                      So I’m guessing more black babies in red states is what we should expect.

                      Which could conceivably (pun intended) come back to bite Republicans in the ass

                      Not with the generous amount of social assistance that is so prevalent in those states.

                      Please love yourself.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • D Doctor Phibes
                        4 May 2022, 18:52

                        @jon-nyc said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

                        So I’m guessing more black babies in red states is what we should expect.

                        Which could conceivably (pun intended) come back to bite Republicans in the ass

                        I Offline
                        I Offline
                        Ivorythumper
                        wrote on 4 May 2022, 19:48 last edited by
                        #26

                        @Doctor-Phibes said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

                        @jon-nyc said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

                        So I’m guessing more black babies in red states is what we should expect.

                        Which could conceivably (pun intended) come back to bite Republicans in the ass

                        that sort of pun should be condomed.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • J jon-nyc
                          4 May 2022, 18:24

                          I’ve seen estimates that the number of abortions will decrease only by about 10-15% since abortion is more common in states that are abortion friendly.

                          Also read that they are disproportionately obtained by black women.

                          So I’m guessing more black babies in red states is what we should expect.

                          C Offline
                          C Offline
                          Copper
                          wrote on 4 May 2022, 22:03 last edited by
                          #27

                          @jon-nyc said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

                          Also read that they are disproportionately obtained by black women.

                          So I’m guessing more black babies in red states is what we should expect.

                          I'm guessing more black women will simply keep their pants on

                          No more single moms struggling to get by

                          No more broken families

                          No more deadbeat dads

                          More dignity and self sufficiency

                          This will usher in the golden age of not-aborted black people

                          G 1 Reply Last reply 4 May 2022, 22:03
                          • C Copper
                            4 May 2022, 22:03

                            @jon-nyc said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

                            Also read that they are disproportionately obtained by black women.

                            So I’m guessing more black babies in red states is what we should expect.

                            I'm guessing more black women will simply keep their pants on

                            No more single moms struggling to get by

                            No more broken families

                            No more deadbeat dads

                            More dignity and self sufficiency

                            This will usher in the golden age of not-aborted black people

                            G Offline
                            G Offline
                            George K
                            wrote on 4 May 2022, 22:03 last edited by
                            #28

                            @Copper said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

                            I'm guessing more black women will simply keep their pants on

                            No more single moms struggling to get by

                            No more broken families

                            No more deadbeat dads

                            More dignity and self sufficiency

                            This will usher in the golden age of not-aborted black people

                            Half-full today. Good on ya, @copper!

                            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                            D 1 Reply Last reply 4 May 2022, 22:09
                            • G George K
                              4 May 2022, 22:03

                              @Copper said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

                              I'm guessing more black women will simply keep their pants on

                              No more single moms struggling to get by

                              No more broken families

                              No more deadbeat dads

                              More dignity and self sufficiency

                              This will usher in the golden age of not-aborted black people

                              Half-full today. Good on ya, @copper!

                              D Offline
                              D Offline
                              Doctor Phibes
                              wrote on 4 May 2022, 22:09 last edited by
                              #29

                              @George-K said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

                              @Copper said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

                              I'm guessing more black women will simply keep their pants on

                              No more single moms struggling to get by

                              No more broken families

                              No more deadbeat dads

                              More dignity and self sufficiency

                              This will usher in the golden age of not-aborted black people

                              Half-full today. Good on ya, @copper!

                              Half full of what, though?

                              I was only joking

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • J Online
                                J Online
                                jon-nyc
                                wrote on 4 May 2022, 22:13 last edited by jon-nyc 5 Apr 2022, 22:14
                                #30

                                Someone once wrote that, at first approximation, middle+ class use birth control, working class use abortion, and the poor use the crib.

                                Thank you for your attention to this matter.

                                A J 2 Replies Last reply 4 May 2022, 22:15
                                • J jon-nyc
                                  4 May 2022, 22:13

                                  Someone once wrote that, at first approximation, middle+ class use birth control, working class use abortion, and the poor use the crib.

                                  A Offline
                                  A Offline
                                  Axtremus
                                  wrote on 4 May 2022, 22:15 last edited by
                                  #31

                                  @jon-nyc said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

                                  Someone once wrote that, at first approximation, middle+ class use birth control, working class use abortion, and the poor use the crib.

                                  Gasp, nobody uses abstinence!?

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • C Offline
                                    C Offline
                                    Copper
                                    wrote on 4 May 2022, 22:45 last edited by
                                    #32

                                    When we went through IVF I'm not sure if freezing was an option.

                                    IVF was still kind of new.

                                    And for what we paid, I used to tell them that my name should be over the door.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • taiwan_girlT Offline
                                      taiwan_girlT Offline
                                      taiwan_girl
                                      wrote on 5 May 2022, 02:25 last edited by
                                      #33

                                      Wasnt it Freaknomics that had something like:

                                      "Decrease in crime can be related to increase in abortion, because more abortions were done by people in poorer areas?"

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • J jon-nyc
                                        4 May 2022, 17:38

                                        @89th imagine if they had to do one at a time to avoid creating one that later would not be implanted.

                                        Sounds like it would be a lot of sessions in many cases and even less affordable.

                                        8 Offline
                                        8 Offline
                                        89th
                                        wrote on 5 May 2022, 03:15 last edited by
                                        #34

                                        @jon-nyc said in Fertility clinics in some red states:

                                        @89th imagine if they had to do one at a time to avoid creating one that later would not be implanted.

                                        Sounds like it would be a lot of sessions in many cases and even less affordable.

                                        What you're referencing is called the "retrieval" part of the process, basically. It usually ends up with the woman providing a number of eggs (usually between 5-20, IIRC) to which the male's sperm is then exposed in a lab environment, resulting in a number of fertilized zygotes which then become blastocysts/embryos (of which usually half show a mitosis strong enough to be considered a candidate for IVF transfer).

                                        To keep it simple, the process basically goes like this:

                                        • Retrieve 20 eggs
                                        • 10 are fertilized
                                        • 5 become "transfer-worthy" embryos
                                        • IVF has about a 30% success rate, so usually 2-4 IVF rounds are needed

                                        Depending on where you go, off the top of my head the retrieval/fertilization part is like $10k, and each IVF round is like $5k.

                                        So yes, trying to start and end that whole process with just 1 embryo is nearly impractical. Not to mention the cost for the services, the HUNDREDS of doctor visits involved (we probably had 200-300 visits over 24 months before we had our first kid, no joke), the numerous daily shots you have to give the woman, and the emotional stress of the whole thing.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • J Online
                                          J Online
                                          jon-nyc
                                          wrote on 5 May 2022, 10:16 last edited by
                                          #35

                                          It seems like it will close that option for many families. Even if you can afford to go out of state for it, it just isn’t practical given the number of visits unless you live close to the border.

                                          Like St Louis folks can go to IL but the Kansas City folks will probably have no options.

                                          Thank you for your attention to this matter.

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