Roe Overturned?
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The USA is generally more conservative than Western Europe when it comes to sex. For instance, here in the USA we still cannot show uncovered sexual organs on public television.
@Axtremus said in Roe Overturned?:
The USA is generally more conservative than Western Europe when it comes to sex. For instance, here in the USA we still cannot show uncovered sexual organs on public television.
I've heard there's plenty online if you know where to look.
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@Axtremus said in Roe Overturned?:
The USA is generally more conservative than Western Europe when it comes to sex. For instance, here in the USA we still cannot show uncovered sexual organs on public television.
I've heard there's plenty online if you know where to look.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Roe Overturned?:
@Axtremus said in Roe Overturned?:
The USA is generally more conservative than Western Europe when it comes to sex. For instance, here in the USA we still cannot show uncovered sexual organs on public television.
I've heard there's plenty online if you know where to look.
spoiler alert
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Funny, that happens on my computer. It does not happen on my tablet or phone.
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It’s a net loser for the GOP electorally. Although polling is very sensitive to phrasing, it can be safely said that most people are uncomfortable with abortion in general but want it to be legal in early stages. Outright bans are going to be unpopular and the edge cases (e.g. rape victims, doomed pregnancies etc forced to carry to term) are going to get a lot of play in the media.
Only non-witches get due process.
- Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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Yes, that's what I'd also assume. Some strict "pro-life"'s would be happy, but they would have voted for the GOP anyway.
If I were the GOP, I'd consider to now take a "abortion legal within first trimester, afterwards only in very restricted set of circumstances (danger to the life of the mother etc.)" middle ground. They'd be the voice of reason.
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I think what Jon may be missing, is that it isn't going to matter a lot in the blue states or much in the red states. Purple states will be where things are the most contentious.
And while it certainly will be an issue, I think the economy will override it as the driving force in contested districts.
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It’s a net loser for the GOP electorally. Although polling is very sensitive to phrasing, it can be safely said that most people are uncomfortable with abortion in general but want it to be legal in early stages. Outright bans are going to be unpopular and the edge cases (e.g. rape victims, doomed pregnancies etc forced to carry to term) are going to get a lot of play in the media.
@jon-nyc said in Roe Overturned?:
It’s a net loser for the GOP electorally. Although polling is very sensitive to phrasing, it can be safely said that most people are uncomfortable with abortion in general but want it to be legal in early stages. Outright bans are going to be unpopular and the edge cases (e.g. rape victims, doomed pregnancies etc forced to carry to term) are going to get a lot of play in the media.
Agree. Look at the Fox News poll posted earlier in this forum thread. Over 60% were said to favor the Supreme court taking no action. I think that Fox News generally is more conservative, so a pretty reliable number I think on an issue like this.
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Yes, that's what I'd also assume. Some strict "pro-life"'s would be happy, but they would have voted for the GOP anyway.
If I were the GOP, I'd consider to now take a "abortion legal within first trimester, afterwards only in very restricted set of circumstances (danger to the life of the mother etc.)" middle ground. They'd be the voice of reason.
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@jon-nyc said in Roe Overturned?:
It’s a net loser for the GOP electorally. Although polling is very sensitive to phrasing, it can be safely said that most people are uncomfortable with abortion in general but want it to be legal in early stages. Outright bans are going to be unpopular and the edge cases (e.g. rape victims, doomed pregnancies etc forced to carry to term) are going to get a lot of play in the media.
Agree. Look at the Fox News poll posted earlier in this forum thread. Over 60% were said to favor the Supreme court taking no action. I think that Fox News generally is more conservative, so a pretty reliable number I think on an issue like this.
@taiwan_girl said in Roe Overturned?:
@jon-nyc said in Roe Overturned?:
It’s a net loser for the GOP electorally. Although polling is very sensitive to phrasing, it can be safely said that most people are uncomfortable with abortion in general but want it to be legal in early stages. Outright bans are going to be unpopular and the edge cases (e.g. rape victims, doomed pregnancies etc forced to carry to term) are going to get a lot of play in the media.
Agree. Look at the Fox News poll posted earlier in this forum thread. Over 60% were said to favor the Supreme court taking no action. I think that Fox News generally is more conservative, so a pretty reliable number I think on an issue like this.
Fox News polls typically generate more liberal numbers than many other polls.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
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Another indicator - ask Mitch McConnell a question about abortion and you’ll get an answer about inflation.
@jon-nyc said in Roe Overturned?:
Another indicator - ask Mitch McConnell a question about abortion and you’ll get an answer about inflation.
Mitch is very good at manipulating rules in the Senate. I don't think he's nearly that good in predictive politics.
If the economy is not good, I just don't see the overturn of Roe being a bellwether issue come midterms...
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@Copper said in Roe Overturned?:
An additional leak, an illustration, from the scotus opinion.
I know it was a joke, but this really is why there is a divide. For me, I cannot NOT see the fetus as another human being (which I think it obviously is), so it's hard for me to understand the position (and honestly, the passion) that it should be legal to end that separate, growing, human life.
Regardless of my opinion, I'd imagine the appropriate legality (whether at the state or federal level) would be that abortion is allowed before there is a beating heart (around 6-8 weeks) or at the worst before the 2nd trimester, and only otherwise allowed for health risks to the mother, child, or unviable pregnancies.
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@Copper said in Roe Overturned?:
An additional leak, an illustration, from the scotus opinion.
I know it was a joke, but this really is why there is a divide. For me, I cannot NOT see the fetus as another human being (which I think it obviously is), so it's hard for me to understand the position (and honestly, the passion) that it should be legal to end that separate, growing, human life.
Regardless of my opinion, I'd imagine the appropriate legality (whether at the state or federal level) would be that abortion is allowed before there is a beating heart (around 6-8 weeks) or at the worst before the 2nd trimester, and only otherwise allowed for health risks to the mother, child, or unviable pregnancies.
@89th said in Roe Overturned?:
I cannot NOT see the fetus as another human being (which I think it obviously is), so it's hard for me to understand the position (and honestly, the passion) that it should be legal to end that separate, growing, human life.
I think there are only two logically coherent point of views on the issue.
Either at the moment of conception you have a life that is morally equivalent to a fully grown human. Abortion at any point and under any circumstance is murder and should be punished as such. That would include, for instance, the usage of IUDs. It's not my position, but I think it is at least logically coherent.
Or you have a grey area, a spectrum of "humanhood". In this point of view it makes a big difference whether an abortion takes place on day 0 (IUDs, morning-after pill), week 4, week 12, or week 35. That would be my position on the issue.
The "it's my body until birth" position, on the other hand, is incoherent. The location of a body is obviously irrelevant when considering how bad it would be to abort/kill it.
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@89th said in Roe Overturned?:
I cannot NOT see the fetus as another human being (which I think it obviously is), so it's hard for me to understand the position (and honestly, the passion) that it should be legal to end that separate, growing, human life.
I think there are only two logically coherent point of views on the issue.
Either at the moment of conception you have a life that is morally equivalent to a fully grown human. Abortion at any point and under any circumstance is murder and should be punished as such. That would include, for instance, the usage of IUDs. It's not my position, but I think it is at least logically coherent.
Or you have a grey area, a spectrum of "humanhood". In this point of view it makes a big difference whether an abortion takes place on day 0 (IUDs, morning-after pill), week 4, week 12, or week 35. That would be my position on the issue.
The "it's my body until birth" position, on the other hand, is incoherent. The location of a body is obviously irrelevant when considering how bad it would be to abort/kill it.
@Klaus said in Roe Overturned?:
The "it's my body until birth" position, on the other hand, is incoherent. The location of a body is obviously irrelevant when considering how bad it would be to abort/kill it.
Yes but it seems the pro-choice side do not consider it to be a(nother) body, they consider it to be the fetus to be THE woman's body. Certainly the fetus is attached to the mother's body, but indeed I agree it's hard to ignore the fetus is a separate human body (that is growing within, and nourished by, the woman's body).
