If Covid deaths spike...
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Most of the white people here say it's not about race, but if there is unfair and disproportionate treatment of blacks, would we really know?
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in If Covid deaths spike...:
Most of the white people here say it's not about race, but if there is unfair and disproportionate treatment of blacks, would we really know?
One thing we can agree on scientifically is that people of color will suffer disproportionally from any spike in Covid.
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@jon-nyc: You know what? The social media influence has become so widespread now that it is now impossible to determine what it is, -- whatever it is -- who or what caused it, and what is the right thing to do about it. And where common sense or clearsightedness or honor don't prevail, then we can always count on majority rule, amirite?
I am right now feeling more than a little like Phibes when his mortgagor tells him not to worry.
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@Mik said in If Covid deaths spike...:
The mistake is in making it about race instead of police brutality. When you try to pretend this only happens to black people then you get into a big old can of worms no one wants to talk honestly about.
I don't think making it about police brutality would pass anybody's sniff test as a hugely important social problem. It has to have the cover of "if you're not black you couldn't possibly understand". That idea is powerful because it makes it racist to use your sniff test.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in If Covid deaths spike...:
Most of the white people here say it's not about race, but if there is unfair and disproportionate treatment of blacks, would we really know?
There is disproportionate police action against low-SES black people born in low-SES black neighborhoods. A high status person of color who's lived in a good neighborhood their whole life has as much likelihood of having been personally visited by policing brutality as I do.
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@Horace said in If Covid deaths spike...:
@Doctor-Phibes said in If Covid deaths spike...:
Most of the white people here say it's not about race, but if there is unfair and disproportionate treatment of blacks, would we really know?
There is disproportionate police action against low-SES black people born in low-SES black neighborhoods. A high status person of color who's lived in a good neighborhood their whole life has as much likelihood of having been personally visited by policing brutality as I do.
Is that backed up by data or is it just an opinion? I've seen lots of higher status blacks claiming the opposite, based on their own personal experiences, but those are just opinions too.
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Numbers out of the social sciences which demonstrate something other than the narrative are not generated as a rule, but you are welcome to google it and see if you can find anything. I am aware that high SES black folk tend to have anecdotes ready to go about how they were pulled over for being black. I am also aware that their own perspective on those incidents is not perfect.
Education is extremely important.
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@Horace said in If Covid deaths spike...:
Numbers out of the social sciences which demonstrate something other than the narrative are not generated as a rule, but you are welcome to google it and see if you can find anything. I am aware that high SES black folk tend to have anecdotes ready to go about how they were pulled over for being black. I am also aware that their own perspective on those incidents is not perfect.
Wouldn't high status blacks tend to have more of an idea about this than high status whites, since if it is happening, it's happening to them?
We all have opinions, but if there's no data, they don't mean much, and at the very least the blacks mentioned appear to have anecdotal evidence. If there is data, and it's written off as meaningless as it supports 'the narrative', then what do we do, just pull opinions out of the air as being better than a narrative we don't believe in? That's just a different narrative.
Unless there's data, we're just a bunch of old white guys saying the blacks don't have it that bad.
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I am aware that I become a joke by opining about the black experience. But I have no interest in shutting off my brain when it comes to our most important political issues that extend way further than race relations, just because I'm supposed to be ashamed for having a thought. I have heard powerful progressives say that all of American politics boils down to race. It is certainly true that progressives want to push every issue that way. That being the case, if you capitulate on race because you have the wrong skin color to have a thought about it, then you capitulate on all political issues.
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It is possible for both sides to be wrong. They generally are, IMNSHO.
And most progressive discussions are a bunch of old white guys saying how tough the blacks have it.
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@Horace said in If Covid deaths spike...:
There is disproportionate police action against low-SES black people born in low-SES black neighborhoods. A high status person of color who's lived in a good neighborhood their whole life has as much likelihood of having been personally visited by policing brutality as I do.
Seems like that has to be false, just based on the differential crime statistics. Even if cops grab the wrong suspect with identical frequency independently of race, the random black guy's odds of being wrongly suspected will exceed the white guy's since they are disproportionately looking for the black male suspect.
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Yes, that is a thing that can be identified that would unequivocally push statistics a certain direction. The amount of that effect would depend largely on neighborhood. A high SES person living in a low SES area would get more of that, presumably. But that would probably not be the most important reason for someone who can afford to do so, to remove themselves from those neighborhoods.
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I can imagine it being worse in high SES areas where crime is usually perpetrated by minorities who come from outside. In the extreme case, imagine being the one black resident of the lily white area that gets hit a few times a month by black criminals from a few towns over.
(Anecdote warning) My neighbor is a corporate lawyer who was born in Nigeria. He was grabbed by cops and thrown up against a wall while taking money out of a Citibank (outdoor) ATM in Chappaqua, the very white suburb where the Clintons live. Nothing happened, the cops soon realized he was not their guy and apologized. Such a scene happening to you or me at the same ATM would be pretty close to inconceivable.
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I would prefer a society where cops are afraid to approach black people to a society that riots at every anecdote of police racism. So if those are our two choices, by all means, put your systems and plans in place to make cops afraid to approach black people.
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@Horace said in If Covid deaths spike...:
@Mik said in If Covid deaths spike...:
The mistake is in making it about race instead of police brutality. When you try to pretend this only happens to black people then you get into a big old can of worms no one wants to talk honestly about.
I don't think making it about police brutality would pass anybody's sniff test as a hugely important social problem. It has to have the cover of "if you're not black you couldn't possibly understand". That idea is powerful because it makes it racist to use your sniff test.
Hence, the Brees Business. It is anathema if he doesn't understand, but those criticising him could care less about his views on the American flag. Empathy Street is a one-way.
