The Ukraine war thread
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@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
I have never thought of any Arab nation as a friend.
"Friends" of convenience.
When you don't need their product, be it oil, deterrence, whatever, you should jettison them.
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After we took Kuwait away from the Iraqis and gave it back to Kuwait, Kuwait was pretty friendly.
Actually Kuwait was pretty friendly before we removed Iraq.
The Shah's Iran was friendly enough, not so much after he retired.
Friendships run hot and cold, this is the way of the world.
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@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
A different take on the situation. Would be curious as to what bach has to say:
In the Arab world, it is safe to say that the collective outrage in the West over the invasion of a weaker country by a stronger country is seen as conspicuously inconsistent. The US traveled 6,000 miles to invade Iraq over a non-existent threat, after all
Iraq was perceived as a threat by most intelligence services of western countries at the time. It may have been wrong, but it was not at the time. Because "after all."
It's interesting that the occupation of Kuwait is not mentioned.
while Russia has invaded a neighboring country that is well-stocked with weapons, and was seeking to join what they perceive to be as a hostile military alliance. The irony is not lost on the Arab public.
So perception of a threat is OK for the Russians, but not for the US?
But, an interesting article about "perceptions" of "threats".
Iraq was perceived as a threat by most intelligence services of western countries at the time. It may have been wrong, but it was not at the time. Because "after all."
That's not how I remember it. Many called BS on the WMD hypothesis right from the start. I never bought it.
I for one think the actual reason was that the Bush administration thought they had to do something to fulfill desires of revenge about 9/11, and Iraq was convenient and geostrategically useful for that.
My impression is that many Americans have no idea about how devastating that war was with respect to the general sentiment towards the US in many parts of the world.
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There's a site that tracks equipment losses by Russia and Ukraine. It only lists verified losses (photos, etc), and also breaks down whether the equipment was destroyed, damaged, or abandoned.
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html
As of today:
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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Very hard to get that data even remotely correct.
Presumably the availability of photos and videos is rather asymmetric for the two sides.
And it's almost impossible to avoid duplicates or fakes.
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Very hard to get that data even remotely correct.
Presumably the availability of photos and videos is rather asymmetric for the two sides.
And it's almost impossible to avoid duplicates or fakes.
@Klaus said in The Ukraine war thread:
Very hard to get that data even remotely correct.
Presumably the availability of photos and videos is rather asymmetric for the two sides.
And it's almost impossible to avoid duplicates or fakes.
Even so, I think it's obvious that
- Ukraine is getting pummeled
- They're holding up far better than anyone expected.
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Iraq was perceived as a threat by most intelligence services of western countries at the time. It may have been wrong, but it was not at the time. Because "after all."
That's not how I remember it. Many called BS on the WMD hypothesis right from the start. I never bought it.
I for one think the actual reason was that the Bush administration thought they had to do something to fulfill desires of revenge about 9/11, and Iraq was convenient and geostrategically useful for that.
My impression is that many Americans have no idea about how devastating that war was with respect to the general sentiment towards the US in many parts of the world.
@Klaus said in The Ukraine war thread:
Iraq was perceived as a threat by most intelligence services of western countries at the time. It may have been wrong, but it was not at the time. Because "after all."
That's not how I remember it. Many called BS on the WMD hypothesis right from the start. I never bought it.
I for one think the actual reason was that the Bush administration thought they had to do something to fulfill desires of revenge about 9/11, and Iraq was convenient and geostrategically useful for that.
My impression is that many Americans have no idea about how devastating that war was with respect to the general sentiment towards the US in many parts of the world.
WMD aside (and there are still many questions regarding the convoys to Syria), The Hussein regime was in serious violation of the ceasefire agreement, were supporting multiple terror cells and activities, were actively trying to assassinate world leaders and former Presidents, and were denying access to UN Inspectors and completely gaming the sanctions to enrich themselves while starving their populace. I personally find that invasion to be perfectly justified.
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Very hard to get that data even remotely correct.
Presumably the availability of photos and videos is rather asymmetric for the two sides.
And it's almost impossible to avoid duplicates or fakes.
@Klaus said in The Ukraine war thread:
Very hard to get that data even remotely correct.
The site says:
"This list only includes destroyed vehicles and equipment of which photo or videographic evidence is available. Therefore, the amount of equipment destroyed is significantly higher than recorded here. Small arms, munitions, civilian vehicles, trailers and derelict equipment (including aircraft) are not included in this list. All possible effort has gone into discerning the status of equipment between captured or abandoned. Many of the entries listed as 'abandoned' will likely end up captured or destroyed. Similarly, some of the captured equipment might be destroyed if it can't be recovered. ATGMs and MANPADS are included in the list but not included in the ultimate count. The Soviet flag is used when the equipment in question was produced prior to 1991.
(Click on the numbers to get a picture of each individual captured or destroyed vehicle)"
Presumably the availability of photos and videos is rather asymmetric for the two sides.
True. However, I doubt that the Russians are documenting their losses in this fashion. Perhaps I'm naive to believe that the Ukrainians are a bit more honest in that regard.
And it's almost impossible to avoid duplicates or fakes.
Possible as well, but they seem to be pretty scrupulous about that. Nothing is documented without a photo. However, for each item listed there is a unique photo.
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I was against it from the very beginning but I also remember that as a key split I had with the left.
I went to an anti-war rally and everyone there thought the war was unjust.
I never thought it was unjust, I simply thought it was unwise.
Many more people have come to that view, including quite a few who supported it at the time.
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Well, no sense in being budget conscious for that May vacation now...
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They’ll find out soon enough that global market for sand is limited to local supply if it even exists.
@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
They’ll find out soon enough that global market for sand is limited to local supply if it even exists.
Actually...
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/05/sand-shortage-the-world-is-running-out-of-a-crucial-commodity.html
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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There's a site that tracks equipment losses by Russia and Ukraine. It only lists verified losses (photos, etc), and also breaks down whether the equipment was destroyed, damaged, or abandoned.
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html
As of today:
@George-K said in The Ukraine war thread:
There's a site that tracks equipment losses by Russia and Ukraine. It only lists verified losses (photos, etc), and also breaks down whether the equipment was destroyed, damaged, or abandoned.
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html
As of today:
You know what screams out from that list?
Helicopters.
For years, helicopters were touted as the answer to vertical envelopment and close combat air support. I think this war is going to make some people sit back and rethink some things.
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@George-K said in The Ukraine war thread:
Interesting comparison of losses from yesterday vs today.
Russians also have much more equipment to lose.
