The Ukraine war thread
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Probably one of the best panel webinars on the subject in the past two weeks. Military, diplomatic and economic topics. Broadcast this am so it is fairly up to date:
Well worth your hour of time.
@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
Probably one of the best panel webinars on the subject in the past two weeks. Military, diplomatic and economic topics. Broadcast this am so it is fairly up to date:
Well worth your hour of time.
Agreed. The retired General was particularly interesting.
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@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
Probably one of the best panel webinars on the subject in the past two weeks. Military, diplomatic and economic topics. Broadcast this am so it is fairly up to date:
Well worth your hour of time.
Agreed. The retired General was particularly interesting.
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Possible good news for Taiwan:
https://www.cfr.org/blog/putins-aggression-against-ukraine-deals-blow-chinas-hopes-taiwan?amp
@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
Possible good news for Taiwan:
https://www.cfr.org/blog/putins-aggression-against-ukraine-deals-blow-chinas-hopes-taiwan?amp
makes alot of sense. I have been hearing the same.
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A different take on the situation. Would be curious as to what bach has to say:
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A different take on the situation. Would be curious as to what bach has to say:
@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
A different take on the situation. Would be curious as to what bach has to say:
In the Arab world, it is safe to say that the collective outrage in the West over the invasion of a weaker country by a stronger country is seen as conspicuously inconsistent. The US traveled 6,000 miles to invade Iraq over a non-existent threat, after all
Iraq was perceived as a threat by most intelligence services of western countries at the time. It may have been wrong, but it was not at the time. Because "after all."
It's interesting that the occupation of Kuwait is not mentioned.
while Russia has invaded a neighboring country that is well-stocked with weapons, and was seeking to join what they perceive to be as a hostile military alliance. The irony is not lost on the Arab public.
So perception of a threat is OK for the Russians, but not for the US?
But, an interesting article about "perceptions" of "threats".
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
A different take on the situation. Would be curious as to what bach has to say:
In the Arab world, it is safe to say that the collective outrage in the West over the invasion of a weaker country by a stronger country is seen as conspicuously inconsistent. The US traveled 6,000 miles to invade Iraq over a non-existent threat, after all
Iraq was perceived as a threat by most intelligence services of western countries at the time. It may have been wrong, but it was not at the time. Because "after all."
It's interesting that the occupation of Kuwait is not mentioned.
while Russia has invaded a neighboring country that is well-stocked with weapons, and was seeking to join what they perceive to be as a hostile military alliance. The irony is not lost on the Arab public.
So perception of a threat is OK for the Russians, but not for the US?
But, an interesting article about "perceptions" of "threats".
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I have never thought of any Arab nation as a friend. Of course they sympathise with Putin, they are all tyrannies in their own way - and that includes Jordan.
@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
I have never thought of any Arab nation as a friend.
"Friends" of convenience.
When you don't need their product, be it oil, deterrence, whatever, you should jettison them.
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@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
I have never thought of any Arab nation as a friend.
"Friends" of convenience.
When you don't need their product, be it oil, deterrence, whatever, you should jettison them.
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After we took Kuwait away from the Iraqis and gave it back to Kuwait, Kuwait was pretty friendly.
Actually Kuwait was pretty friendly before we removed Iraq.
The Shah's Iran was friendly enough, not so much after he retired.
Friendships run hot and cold, this is the way of the world.
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@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
A different take on the situation. Would be curious as to what bach has to say:
In the Arab world, it is safe to say that the collective outrage in the West over the invasion of a weaker country by a stronger country is seen as conspicuously inconsistent. The US traveled 6,000 miles to invade Iraq over a non-existent threat, after all
Iraq was perceived as a threat by most intelligence services of western countries at the time. It may have been wrong, but it was not at the time. Because "after all."
It's interesting that the occupation of Kuwait is not mentioned.
while Russia has invaded a neighboring country that is well-stocked with weapons, and was seeking to join what they perceive to be as a hostile military alliance. The irony is not lost on the Arab public.
So perception of a threat is OK for the Russians, but not for the US?
But, an interesting article about "perceptions" of "threats".
Iraq was perceived as a threat by most intelligence services of western countries at the time. It may have been wrong, but it was not at the time. Because "after all."
That's not how I remember it. Many called BS on the WMD hypothesis right from the start. I never bought it.
I for one think the actual reason was that the Bush administration thought they had to do something to fulfill desires of revenge about 9/11, and Iraq was convenient and geostrategically useful for that.
My impression is that many Americans have no idea about how devastating that war was with respect to the general sentiment towards the US in many parts of the world.
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There's a site that tracks equipment losses by Russia and Ukraine. It only lists verified losses (photos, etc), and also breaks down whether the equipment was destroyed, damaged, or abandoned.
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html
As of today:
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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Very hard to get that data even remotely correct.
Presumably the availability of photos and videos is rather asymmetric for the two sides.
And it's almost impossible to avoid duplicates or fakes.
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Very hard to get that data even remotely correct.
Presumably the availability of photos and videos is rather asymmetric for the two sides.
And it's almost impossible to avoid duplicates or fakes.
@Klaus said in The Ukraine war thread:
Very hard to get that data even remotely correct.
Presumably the availability of photos and videos is rather asymmetric for the two sides.
And it's almost impossible to avoid duplicates or fakes.
Even so, I think it's obvious that
- Ukraine is getting pummeled
- They're holding up far better than anyone expected.
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Iraq was perceived as a threat by most intelligence services of western countries at the time. It may have been wrong, but it was not at the time. Because "after all."
That's not how I remember it. Many called BS on the WMD hypothesis right from the start. I never bought it.
I for one think the actual reason was that the Bush administration thought they had to do something to fulfill desires of revenge about 9/11, and Iraq was convenient and geostrategically useful for that.
My impression is that many Americans have no idea about how devastating that war was with respect to the general sentiment towards the US in many parts of the world.
@Klaus said in The Ukraine war thread:
Iraq was perceived as a threat by most intelligence services of western countries at the time. It may have been wrong, but it was not at the time. Because "after all."
That's not how I remember it. Many called BS on the WMD hypothesis right from the start. I never bought it.
I for one think the actual reason was that the Bush administration thought they had to do something to fulfill desires of revenge about 9/11, and Iraq was convenient and geostrategically useful for that.
My impression is that many Americans have no idea about how devastating that war was with respect to the general sentiment towards the US in many parts of the world.
WMD aside (and there are still many questions regarding the convoys to Syria), The Hussein regime was in serious violation of the ceasefire agreement, were supporting multiple terror cells and activities, were actively trying to assassinate world leaders and former Presidents, and were denying access to UN Inspectors and completely gaming the sanctions to enrich themselves while starving their populace. I personally find that invasion to be perfectly justified.
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Very hard to get that data even remotely correct.
Presumably the availability of photos and videos is rather asymmetric for the two sides.
And it's almost impossible to avoid duplicates or fakes.
@Klaus said in The Ukraine war thread:
Very hard to get that data even remotely correct.
The site says:
"This list only includes destroyed vehicles and equipment of which photo or videographic evidence is available. Therefore, the amount of equipment destroyed is significantly higher than recorded here. Small arms, munitions, civilian vehicles, trailers and derelict equipment (including aircraft) are not included in this list. All possible effort has gone into discerning the status of equipment between captured or abandoned. Many of the entries listed as 'abandoned' will likely end up captured or destroyed. Similarly, some of the captured equipment might be destroyed if it can't be recovered. ATGMs and MANPADS are included in the list but not included in the ultimate count. The Soviet flag is used when the equipment in question was produced prior to 1991.
(Click on the numbers to get a picture of each individual captured or destroyed vehicle)"
Presumably the availability of photos and videos is rather asymmetric for the two sides.
True. However, I doubt that the Russians are documenting their losses in this fashion. Perhaps I'm naive to believe that the Ukrainians are a bit more honest in that regard.
And it's almost impossible to avoid duplicates or fakes.
Possible as well, but they seem to be pretty scrupulous about that. Nothing is documented without a photo. However, for each item listed there is a unique photo.
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I was against it from the very beginning but I also remember that as a key split I had with the left.
I went to an anti-war rally and everyone there thought the war was unjust.
I never thought it was unjust, I simply thought it was unwise.
Many more people have come to that view, including quite a few who supported it at the time.
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