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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
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  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

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  • M Away
    M Away
    Mik
    wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 01:00 last edited by
    #303

    Yes, I get all that. But I still wonder.

    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

    R 1 Reply Last reply 14 Apr 2022, 01:25
    • M Mik
      14 Apr 2022, 01:00

      Yes, I get all that. But I still wonder.

      R Offline
      R Offline
      Renauda
      wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 01:25 last edited by
      #304

      @Mik

      As do I. Still, I do not think that it has really sunk into people’s heads in NATO countries that Putin has already declared war on NATO and the West. He just happens to be taking it out on Ukrainians and on their territory……for now.

      Elbows up!

      A 1 Reply Last reply 14 Apr 2022, 02:10
      • R Renauda
        14 Apr 2022, 01:25

        @Mik

        As do I. Still, I do not think that it has really sunk into people’s heads in NATO countries that Putin has already declared war on NATO and the West. He just happens to be taking it out on Ukrainians and on their territory……for now.

        A Offline
        A Offline
        Aqua Letifer
        wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 02:10 last edited by
        #305

        @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

        @Mik

        As do I. Still, I do not think that it has really sunk into people’s heads in NATO countries that Putin has already declared war on NATO and the West. He just happens to be taking it out on Ukrainians and on their territory……for now.

        How much steam can he have left, though? Their economy has tanked and they're losing a ton of equipment and weapons in Ukraine.

        Please love yourself.

        A 1 Reply Last reply 14 Apr 2022, 03:27
        • A Aqua Letifer
          14 Apr 2022, 02:10

          @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

          @Mik

          As do I. Still, I do not think that it has really sunk into people’s heads in NATO countries that Putin has already declared war on NATO and the West. He just happens to be taking it out on Ukrainians and on their territory……for now.

          How much steam can he have left, though? Their economy has tanked and they're losing a ton of equipment and weapons in Ukraine.

          A Offline
          A Offline
          Axtremus
          wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 03:27 last edited by
          #306

          @Aqua-Letifer said in The Ukraine war thread:

          How much steam can he have left, though? Their economy has tanked and they're losing a ton of equipment and weapons in Ukraine.

          Nuclear arsenals, there is no countermeasure but man‘s will to not actually use them.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • A Offline
            A Offline
            Axtremus
            wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 03:42 last edited by Axtremus
            #307

            https://time.com/6166595/whats-in-bidens-800-million-military-aid-package-for-ukraine/

            ... the Biden Administration on Wednesday authorized a massive $800-million military aid package to help Kyiv fend off Moscow’s unprovoked invasion.

            The newly announced assistance includes a wide range of weapon systems for the Ukrainian military designed to help them fight off the superior heavy forces Russia is putting into the field. ...

            Then there is a long list military hardware the the US will send to Ukraine in that package.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • C Offline
              C Offline
              Copper
              wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 10:09 last edited by
              #308

              Massive

              1 Reply Last reply
              • G Offline
                G Offline
                George K
                wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 11:44 last edited by George K
                #309

                Ukraine says it damaged Russian flagship, crew evacuates

                Ukraine said its forces struck and seriously damaged the flagship of Russia’s Black Sea fleet, dealing a potentially major setback to Moscow’s troops as they try to regroup for a renewed offensive in eastern Ukraine after retreating from much of the north, including the capital.

                Russia said Thursday the entire crew of the Moskva, a warship that would typically have 500 sailors on board, was forced to evacuate after a fire overnight and also reported it was badly damaged. But it did not acknowledge any attack, which, in addition to any practical impact, would also deal a major blow to Russian prestige seven weeks into a war that is already widely seen as a historic blunder.

                The damage to the ship came hours after some of Ukraine’s allies sought to rally new support for the embattled country. On a visit with leaders from three other EU countries on Russia’s doorstep who fear they could next be in Moscow’s sights, Lithuanian President Gitanas Nauseda declared that “the fight for Europe’s future is happening here.”

                "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • G Offline
                  G Offline
                  George K
                  wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 12:12 last edited by
                  #310

                  More context on the hit on the москва

                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • J Online
                    J Online
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 13:04 last edited by jon-nyc
                    #311

                    David Patraeus and Niall Ferguson. A good read.

                    "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                    -Cormac McCarthy

                    G M R 3 Replies Last reply 14 Apr 2022, 13:16
                    • J jon-nyc
                      14 Apr 2022, 13:04

                      David Patraeus and Niall Ferguson. A good read.

                      G Offline
                      G Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 13:16 last edited by
                      #312

                      @jon-nyc excellent article. Petraeus makes it sound almost hopeful that Ukraine might prevail.

                      Meanwhile, in Washington:

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • J jon-nyc
                        14 Apr 2022, 13:04

                        David Patraeus and Niall Ferguson. A good read.

                        M Away
                        M Away
                        Mik
                        wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 13:57 last edited by Mik
                        #313

                        @jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:

                        David Patraeus and Niall Ferguson. A good read.

                        Very good read. I particularly liked this Petraeus quote:

                        "The idea of fighting in a country where everyone hates you and will do anything they can to frustrate what you’re trying to achieve is mind-boggling to me. I can’t imagine what it would be like."

                        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • J jon-nyc
                          14 Apr 2022, 13:04

                          David Patraeus and Niall Ferguson. A good read.

                          R Offline
                          R Offline
                          Renauda
                          wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 14:43 last edited by
                          #314

                          @jon-nyc

                          What George and Mik already stated plus Ferguson’s statement:

                          “ Another aspect of the war that’s interesting to me is that in some ways we’re seeing a familiar battle between an empire and a nation state. And indeed, the war seems to be forging Ukraine as a nation state even as it weakens Russia as an empire.”

                          Elbows up!

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • A Offline
                            A Offline
                            Aqua Letifer
                            wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 17:09 last edited by Aqua Letifer
                            #315

                            Nukes threatened if Sweden or Finland join NATO.

                            https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-warns-baltic-nuclear-deployment-if-nato-admits-sweden-finland-2022-04-14/

                            My question is, what about the interim period between NATO application and membership? I know they're working on security guarantees but how is the rest of the world going to view an attack from Russia during this interim period?

                            Please love yourself.

                            R 2 Replies Last reply 14 Apr 2022, 18:15
                            • M Away
                              M Away
                              Mik
                              wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 18:13 last edited by
                              #316

                              I don't see any way the Russian army could mount an effective conventional attack on Scandinavia. It's a bluff. Using nuclear weapons would make Russia a pariah for the foreseeable future and they cannot possibly win a nuclear exchange with NATO.

                              Even if he eventually occupies Ukraine he won't be able to hold it at any acceptable cost in blood and treasure. Surely he must know this by now.

                              I've read that Russian troops have been told that the war must be over, one way or another, for the May 9 WWII victory celebration. Perhaps Putin will claim Donetsk and Luhansk and declare victory.

                              “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                              R 1 Reply Last reply 14 Apr 2022, 18:18
                              • A Aqua Letifer
                                14 Apr 2022, 17:09

                                Nukes threatened if Sweden or Finland join NATO.

                                https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-warns-baltic-nuclear-deployment-if-nato-admits-sweden-finland-2022-04-14/

                                My question is, what about the interim period between NATO application and membership? I know they're working on security guarantees but how is the rest of the world going to view an attack from Russia during this interim period?

                                R Offline
                                R Offline
                                Renauda
                                wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 18:15 last edited by Renauda
                                #317

                                @Aqua-Letifer

                                Sabre rattling. It means nothing and I call B. S. to the threat. Those are highly mobile systems that can be set in place at the drop of a hat and have a range that enables them to be deployed onto target from well within the borders of Russian Federation.

                                Elbows up!

                                A 1 Reply Last reply 14 Apr 2022, 19:30
                                • M Mik
                                  14 Apr 2022, 18:13

                                  I don't see any way the Russian army could mount an effective conventional attack on Scandinavia. It's a bluff. Using nuclear weapons would make Russia a pariah for the foreseeable future and they cannot possibly win a nuclear exchange with NATO.

                                  Even if he eventually occupies Ukraine he won't be able to hold it at any acceptable cost in blood and treasure. Surely he must know this by now.

                                  I've read that Russian troops have been told that the war must be over, one way or another, for the May 9 WWII victory celebration. Perhaps Putin will claim Donetsk and Luhansk and declare victory.

                                  R Offline
                                  R Offline
                                  Renauda
                                  wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 18:18 last edited by
                                  #318

                                  @Mik

                                  I've read that Russian troops have been told that the war must be over, one way or another, for the May 9 WWII victory celebration. Perhaps Putin will claim Donetsk and Luhansk and declare victory..

                                  Hearing that as well. Quite plausible, although in the long run I still believe he wants total control over the whole of Ukraine.

                                  Elbows up!

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • R Renauda
                                    14 Apr 2022, 18:15

                                    @Aqua-Letifer

                                    Sabre rattling. It means nothing and I call B. S. to the threat. Those are highly mobile systems that can be set in place at the drop of a hat and have a range that enables them to be deployed onto target from well within the borders of Russian Federation.

                                    A Offline
                                    A Offline
                                    Axtremus
                                    wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 19:30 last edited by Axtremus
                                    #319

                                    @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                    Sabre rattling.

                                    For domestic consumption, and/or to remind the world it still has a Sabre?

                                    R 1 Reply Last reply 14 Apr 2022, 19:40
                                    • A Axtremus
                                      14 Apr 2022, 19:30

                                      @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                      Sabre rattling.

                                      For domestic consumption, and/or to remind the world it still has a Sabre?

                                      R Offline
                                      R Offline
                                      Renauda
                                      wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 19:40 last edited by
                                      #320

                                      @Axtremus

                                      Both.

                                      Elbows up!

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • B Offline
                                        B Offline
                                        bachophile
                                        wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 20:38 last edited by
                                        #321

                                        Interesting thread on the sinking of the Moskva

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • B Offline
                                          B Offline
                                          bachophile
                                          wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 20:40 last edited by
                                          #322

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