The Ukraine war thread
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wrote on 12 Apr 2022, 12:28 last edited by
Putin purges more than 100 FSB agents
Russia's invasion of Ukraine appears not to be going according to plan, and President Vladimir Putin seems intent on blaming his old colleagues at the Federal Security Bureau (FSB) – the intelligence agency successor to the KGB – for the quagmire.
Putin reportedly purged more than 100 agents from the FSB, and his government sent the head of the department responsible for Ukraine to prison.
About 150 FSB officers have been dismissed, The Times of London reported Monday. The ousted agents belonged to the Fifth Service, a division that Putin – then director of the FSB – set up in 1998 in order to carry out operations in the countries of the former Soviet Union, aiming to keep those countries in Russia's orbit.
Authorities placed Sergei Beseda, the former head of the Fifth Service, under house arrest last month. He has since been moved to the FSB-run Lefortovo prison in Moscow, The Times reported. The NKVD, the KGB's predecessor, used the prison for interrogation and torture during Stalin's 1930s Great Purge.This move sent a "very strong message" to other elites in Russia, Andrei Soldatov, an expert with the Center for European Policy Analysis (CEPA), told The Times.
At least in the US these guys could get jobs as talking heads on cable tv "news" shows.
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wrote on 12 Apr 2022, 17:41 last edited by
@Renauda it may, or may not, be false.
However the Brits are looking at it seriously.
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@Renauda it may, or may not, be false.
However the Brits are looking at it seriously.
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As they should, it is serious. I do not dispute the very real possibility (or for that matter, very real probability) of deployment. Still, verification either way is paramount.
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Until the experts have weighed in and a chemical agent or compound agent is identified nothing is confirmed.
wrote on 12 Apr 2022, 20:21 last edited by@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
Until the experts have weighed and a chemical agent or agent are identified nothing is confirmed.
What do you think will happen if it is confirmed?
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@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
Until the experts have weighed and a chemical agent or agent are identified nothing is confirmed.
What do you think will happen if it is confirmed?
wrote on 12 Apr 2022, 20:23 last edited byDon’t know other than the big hand moves that much closer to midnight.
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@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
Until the experts have weighed and a chemical agent or agent are identified nothing is confirmed.
What do you think will happen if it is confirmed?
wrote on 12 Apr 2022, 20:42 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
Until the experts have weighed and a chemical agent or agent are identified nothing is confirmed.
What do you think will happen if it is confirmed?
Probably nothing military, like in Syria. More sanctions.
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wrote on 13 Apr 2022, 21:49 last edited by
With a Ukrainian marines unit in Donetsk.
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With a Ukrainian marines unit in Donetsk.
wrote on 13 Apr 2022, 22:57 last edited by RenaudaAs your link points out, weight of numbers certainly do not favour the Ukrainians.
Finally a friendly state and its people are willing to sacrifice their young and old alike in the name of freedom, and we, in the West, find ourselves with all our might, in held check by a despot that has declared war on us all.
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As your link points out, weight of numbers certainly do not favour the Ukrainians.
Finally a friendly state and its people are willing to sacrifice their young and old alike in the name of freedom, and we, in the West, find ourselves with all our might, in held check by a despot that has declared war on us all.
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wrote on 13 Apr 2022, 23:51 last edited by
Incidentally, I heard tonight we are going to be giving them helicopters. What, pray tell, is the difference between that and fixed wing aircraft in terms of Russian response?
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Incidentally, I heard tonight we are going to be giving them helicopters. What, pray tell, is the difference between that and fixed wing aircraft in terms of Russian response?
wrote on 13 Apr 2022, 23:57 last edited by@Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:
Incidentally, I heard tonight we are going to be giving them helicopters. What, pray tell, is the difference between that and fixed wing aircraft in terms of Russian response?
Biden called it genocide. Macron said he wasn't willing to go that far. Then Biden explicitly doubled down.
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@Renauda I cannot help but wonder what would happen if NATO declared Ukraine, Sweden and Finland members and gave the murderous bastard his eviction notice.
wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 00:46 last edited by Renauda@Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Renauda I cannot help but wonder what would happen if NATO declared Ukraine, Sweden and Finland members and gave the murderous bastard his eviction notice.
Personally, I believe both Finland and Sweden will soon apply for NATO membership. Putin can and will rattle his sword all he wants but it will be a done deal. Putin will bark but won’t bite. Be interesting though if LePen, a Putin groupie, becomes President in France and Putin uses France and his buddy, Viktor Orban in Hungary to try and block their membership. It’s possible, we’ll see.
Ukraine is another matter. The time to have brought Ukraine into NATO was during the Bush II Admin prior to Putin’s infamous Munich tirade in 2007 and invasion of Georgia the following year. Throughout the Obama years there was no appetite either in Washington or with the other founding members of the alliance other than possibly the UK to bring in Ukraine. After the annexation of Crimea and subsequent civil war in the Donbas in 2014; Ukrainian aspirations to join NATO were in any case dashed by virtue of the fact there were border regions in dispute with an immediate neighbour. One of the founding conditions of joining NATO is that all border issues with neighbours must be settled and closed.
Any direct military action NATO or any of its members take in support of Ukraine risks an all out confrontation with Russia. That confrontation could be limited to conventional weapons. It could also just as easily cross the nuclear threshold.
Once that threshold is crossed, our Cold War experience of the last century has taught us that nuclear deterrence has failed and the time has arrived to think about the unthinkable viz. the probability of a strategic nuclear exchange is likely if not certain. That is the price of total war.
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wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 01:00 last edited by
Yes, I get all that. But I still wonder.
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wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 01:25 last edited by
As do I. Still, I do not think that it has really sunk into people’s heads in NATO countries that Putin has already declared war on NATO and the West. He just happens to be taking it out on Ukrainians and on their territory……for now.
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As do I. Still, I do not think that it has really sunk into people’s heads in NATO countries that Putin has already declared war on NATO and the West. He just happens to be taking it out on Ukrainians and on their territory……for now.
wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 02:10 last edited by@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
As do I. Still, I do not think that it has really sunk into people’s heads in NATO countries that Putin has already declared war on NATO and the West. He just happens to be taking it out on Ukrainians and on their territory……for now.
How much steam can he have left, though? Their economy has tanked and they're losing a ton of equipment and weapons in Ukraine.
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@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
As do I. Still, I do not think that it has really sunk into people’s heads in NATO countries that Putin has already declared war on NATO and the West. He just happens to be taking it out on Ukrainians and on their territory……for now.
How much steam can he have left, though? Their economy has tanked and they're losing a ton of equipment and weapons in Ukraine.
wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 03:27 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ukraine war thread:
How much steam can he have left, though? Their economy has tanked and they're losing a ton of equipment and weapons in Ukraine.
Nuclear arsenals, there is no countermeasure but man‘s will to not actually use them.
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wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 03:42 last edited by Axtremus
https://time.com/6166595/whats-in-bidens-800-million-military-aid-package-for-ukraine/
... the Biden Administration on Wednesday authorized a massive $800-million military aid package to help Kyiv fend off Moscow’s unprovoked invasion.
The newly announced assistance includes a wide range of weapon systems for the Ukrainian military designed to help them fight off the superior heavy forces Russia is putting into the field. ...
Then there is a long list military hardware the the US will send to Ukraine in that package.