The Ukraine war thread
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Sam Harris weighs in:
That was a mortifying spectacle in the Oval Office today. We witnessed President Trump acting like a handmaiden to a Russian dictator, while processing everything—US foreign policy, world history, the fate of millions—through the lens of his own grandiosity, pettiness, and personal grievances. Trump is siding with a man who has all but threatened us with nuclear annihilation over our support for an independent Ukraine. Putin's troops have routinely subjected Ukrainian POWs to torture. They have stolen tens of thousands of Ukrainian children and repatriated them to Russia. And we now have President and Vice President who blame the victims for all the misery and death that has been imposed on them (and for not saying “thank you” when they do this). Where do we go to get our country's moral stature back?
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
We witnessed President Trump acting like a handmaiden to a Russian dictator
Handmaidens to Russian dictators don't put a show like that on live TV.
As Mr. Trump said, during the mortifying spectacle, he wanted the American people to see that.
Mr. Trump welcomes you all to the USA.
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To Republicans:
Is this the Commander in Chief you voted for, or has he turned out to be something very different to your expectations?
@AndyD said in The Ukraine war thread:
To Republicans:
Is this the Commander in Chief you voted for, or has he turned out to be something very different to your expectations?
I would not have expected Trump to back down from the push-back from Zelensky.
I really wish Zelensky had been more deferential. While the Trump haters will be indulging in their orgy of blaming Trump for all of this, Zelensky made some very obvious choices, and now we will watch the consequences.
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@jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:
Which of his sentences do you disagree with?
Sam's not here to defend himself, so I am honor bound not to respond.
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
@jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:
Which of his sentences do you disagree with?
Sam's not here to defend himself, so I am honor bound not to respond.
Out of curiosity, where did you find that? Do you subscribe to his substack?
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@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
@jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:
Which of his sentences do you disagree with?
Sam's not here to defend himself, so I am honor bound not to respond.
Out of curiosity, where did you find that? Do you subscribe to his substack?
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To Republicans:
Is this the Commander in Chief you voted for, or has he turned out to be something very different to your expectations?
@AndyD said in The Ukraine war thread:
Is this the Commander in Chief you voted for, or has he turned out to be something very different to your expectations?
I voted for the non-traditional approach.
I've made my support back many times over.
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It's clear that Putin ordered Trump to have this meeting out in the open. He's constantly testing Trump's allegiance. There's got to be something bigger than pee pee tapes that he's holding over his head.
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No deal. No meal. Come back when you're serious.
https://www.axios.com/2025/02/28/trump-zelensky-oval-office-meeting-details
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That’s probably too generous.
I’m afraid the plain truth is that Trump is obsequious to Putin simply because he wants to be.
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Ukrainian MP calling for Zelenskyy to be impeached.
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Anybody taking Zelensky seriously, is seriously considering him to be suicidal, not only for himself, but for his country.
These are probably many of the same people who think Russia would never do a nuclear war, because of self interest. Because as an axiom, a country's leader will not be suicidal.
I do respect that axiom, but if it holds true, then Zelensky was not serious today, except as a person who was taking serious steps towards stepping down as leader of his country.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ukraine war thread:
Does anybody think that Trump and Vance came out of that looking good?
And which rocket surgeon had the idea to televise that?
No, I thought Vance was caught off balance, and seemed hesitant about what to say. Trump just got puffy and indignant.
I will continue to wait patiently for anybody to think about whether zelenksy's choices in the conversation were wise.
My best hope is that it will be water under the bridge.
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
I will continue to wait patiently for anybody to think about whether zelenksy's choices in the conversation were wise.
You’re right about the practical effect of it. However as Jon mentioned, this guy has spent fighting to stop an invasion, one that initially we thought Russia would win in 3 days, and the Ukrainians have held them off for 3 years, and I think Zelenskyy at this point is a DGAF mode…and any deal that even hints at annexing more Ukrainian land to Russia is a non starter.
I mean it’s simple, Russia invaded and anything short of kicking Russia out with sanctions is a horrible precedent to set.
Btw…Trump lie tracker alert. Around 10 minutes in there was the first joking scuffle… Trump said Europe “has not given very much money, very little” compared to the US to Ukraine, and Zelensky corrected him on this, and they both awkwardly joked about who is right, but look at the chart and tell me who was right.
