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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

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  • taiwan_girlT Offline
    taiwan_girlT Offline
    taiwan_girl
    wrote on last edited by
    #2449

    At least four oil tankers have been hit with explosions so far this year — all of them having visited Russia’s territorial waters in the weeks prior to the blasts happening.

    “All the indications are that these have been deliberately orchestrated, but it’s with a significant degree of sophistication,” said Munro Anderson, head of operations at Vessel Protect, a major war-risk insurer of ships. “So, the big question that leads to is: ‘by who?’”

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-02-20/oil-tankers-rocked-by-mystery-blasts-after-trips-to-russia

    1 Reply Last reply
    • MikM Offline
      MikM Offline
      Mik
      wrote on last edited by Mik
      #2450

      I watched this video this morning. it certainly presents a different view. I wondered at the time if such NATO expansion was a great idea, but was unaware of the guarantees Sachs claims the west made after the fall of the Soviet Union. It may well be that we abandoned such ideas when Russia tried to take Georgia, then Crimea and then eastern Ukraine even before the 2022 incursion.

      Link to video

      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

      1 Reply Last reply
      • MikM Offline
        MikM Offline
        Mik
        wrote on last edited by
        #2451

        Hmm... while looking into him, he IS faculty at Columbia, which makes him instantly suspect of left leaning views.

        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

        1 Reply Last reply
        • HoraceH Offline
          HoraceH Offline
          Horace
          wrote on last edited by
          #2452

          Tucker interviewed him a few days ago, if you'd like to hear more from him.

          Link to video

          There are plenty of people who are only framed as "nutters" because they happen to disagree with the party line. If they agreed with the party line, their credentials would be plenty to hold them up as exactly the sorts of people who should be listened to.

          Education is extremely important.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • MikM Offline
            MikM Offline
            Mik
            wrote on last edited by
            #2453

            I'm not sure I do. He seems to have a tenuous grasp on historical truth.

            https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4727046-from-economist-to-kremlin-mouthpiece-the-troubling-transformation-of-jeffrey-sachs/

            “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

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            • RenaudaR Offline
              RenaudaR Offline
              Renauda
              wrote on last edited by Renauda
              #2454

              @Mik

              I watched this video this morning. it certainly presents a different view. I wondered at the time if such NATO expansion was a great idea, but was unaware of the guarantees Sachs claims the west made after the fall of the Soviet Union.

              It’s a popular misconception (read disinformation) promoted by the Kremlin itself. You are not alone.

              The claim got its start in 1998 on Russian TV when NATO went after Serbia over Kosovo. It got ramped up again in when Putin gave his belligerent Munich speech (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Munich_speech_of_Vladimir_Putin)
              It has now become gospel for the likes of Jeffery Sachs, John Mearsheimer and a host of people in the West who really ought to know better.

              Gorbachev himself refuted the claim a decade ago:

              Gorbachev continued that “The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been obeyed all these years.” To be sure, the former Soviet president criticized NATO enlargement and called it a violation of the spirit of the assurances given Moscow in 1990, but he made clear there was no promise regarding broader enlargement.

              https://www.brookings.edu/articles/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

              Edit: I see now that you covered this in your subsequent post and link to The Hill. Think of my post here as affirmation of your follow up post..

              Elbows up!

              1 Reply Last reply
              • bachophileB Offline
                bachophileB Offline
                bachophile
                wrote on last edited by
                #2455

                IMG_0086.jpeg

                Ok. I’ve never ever seen an Oval Office meeting like this.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • X Offline
                  X Offline
                  xenon
                  wrote on last edited by xenon
                  #2456

                  When you’re a fraud, eventually you get exposed.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • X Offline
                    X Offline
                    xenon
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #2457

                    Link to video

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • X Offline
                      X Offline
                      xenon
                      wrote on last edited by xenon
                      #2458

                      Zelensky did to Trump what Trump does to others - call bullshit to their face.

                      And JD defaulted to “please respect the Oval Office”

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • HoraceH Offline
                        HoraceH Offline
                        Horace
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #2459

                        Zelensky has an interesting attitude. He thinks the anti-Trump crowd in America is useful leverage for him. I'm not sure he's right. The usual crowd will love this as Zelensky smiting Trump from the right side of history, but it is far from obvious to me that his attitude is helpful.

                        Education is extremely important.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • 89th8 Offline
                          89th8 Offline
                          89th
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #2460

                          Well, that went well.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • 89th8 Offline
                            89th8 Offline
                            89th
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #2461

                            I guess all Trump wants is "thanks" but like, to hear it a lot. Over and over.

                            Reminds me of the ending:

                            Link to video

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • RenaudaR Offline
                              RenaudaR Offline
                              Renauda
                              wrote on last edited by Renauda
                              #2462

                              All Zelenskyi did was point out the fact that previous diplomacy attempts with Putin - ie The Minsk Accords - all failed. In every instance Putin broke the agreement and resumed his aggression. Vance pounced on him and accused Zelenskyi of litigating the war in the cherished Oval Office. The yelling match then escalated. It came off as Vance acting as agent provocateur. If I didn’t know better, I would say it was choreographed.

                              It is nothing short of a disaster.

                              Elbows up!

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • HoraceH Offline
                                HoraceH Offline
                                Horace
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #2463

                                I think Zelensky surprised them by not even attempting to be diplomatic or deferential. That's his choice, but he's probably not well advised to think it'll be effective with Trump. He must be hoping it'll be effective with the western media who are already on his side. I'm sure they'll love it, I'm just not sure how meaningful that is.

                                Education is extremely important.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • RenaudaR Offline
                                  RenaudaR Offline
                                  Renauda
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #2464

                                  Bullshit, Horace. Until Vance chimed in Zelenskyi was perfectly cordial and diplomatic.

                                  Elbows up!

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • MikM Offline
                                    MikM Offline
                                    Mik
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #2465

                                    Wow.

                                    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • MikM Offline
                                      MikM Offline
                                      Mik
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #2466

                                      This should NOT have been televised. Too performative.

                                      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                      HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • MikM Mik

                                        This should NOT have been televised. Too performative.

                                        HoraceH Offline
                                        HoraceH Offline
                                        Horace
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #2467

                                        @Mik I think Zelensky surprised them. Surprised me, too. He's awfully cavalier about his personal relationship with this administration and American culture at large. I am surprised he is comfortable being that cavalier. But he's the guy in charge, and I hope he knows what he's doing. I'm not completely convinced that he does.

                                        Education is extremely important.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • jon-nycJ Online
                                          jon-nycJ Online
                                          jon-nyc
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #2468

                                          Two soft bullies haranguing a man who has spent three years fighting to save his country.

                                          You were warned.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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