The Ukraine war thread
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Chinese mock Russian fighter jet
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/41667 -
Meanwhile in Europe, Russian mischief is suspected at the root of combusting courier packages in transit:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c07912lxx33o
Peace loving Russian foreign policy at play.
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Another Russian general killed. Apparently an especially nasty one at that:
Major General Pavel Klimenko…. A Russian army general in charge of a unit alleged to have tortured its own soldiers and murdered a U.S. citizen was reportedly killed in Ukraine this week, becoming the eighth Russian general to die since President Vladimir Putin ordered the full-scale invasion of Ukraine.
I wonder if he was fragged?
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“Little by little I am learning the art of being quite content by doing very little slowly” ~ Lionel Hardcastle
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More on the Russian connection to incendiary packages on cargo and passenger aircraft:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/incendiary-devices-plot-canada-russia-1.7378613
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Possible early indicator of the direction the Trump Admin will take on the war in Ukraine:
“Little by little I am learning the art of being quite content by doing very little slowly” ~ Lionel Hardcastle
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@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
Possible early indicator of the direction the Trump Admin will take on the war in Ukraine:
Thoughts on that? Ukraine doesn't seem to be doing very well lately.
Though I did read (and can't find) that the Nork soldiers didn't stand up well. Perhaps too much pr0n?
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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Thoughts on that?
Everything hinges on what Russia is prepared to negotiate in good faith and how badly it wants economic sanctions reduced or altogether lifted.
I do however think and agree that the Crimea is irretrievably lost to Russia. As for the occupied territories in the Donbas, they are little more than minefields and rubble. The cost of remediation would be astronomical and hardly worth Kyiv trying to regain them at the negotiating table.
In any event, Putin has already and irrevocably lost the long term peace. The question is whether he understands the implications of that fact or even cares about them.
“Little by little I am learning the art of being quite content by doing very little slowly” ~ Lionel Hardcastle
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@jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:
Can't rebuild the Russian empire without Crimea, after all.
So the non-serious outcome where Crimea goes back to Ukraine would be proof that Trump is not actually a Russian ally. I am sure Trump will face many non-serious requirements in order to be proven a worthy American leader.
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@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
I do however think and agree that the Crimea is irretrievably lost to Russia. As for the occupied territories in the Donbas, they are little more than minefields and rubble. The cost of remediation would be astronomical and hardly worth Kyiv trying to regain them at the negotiating table.
I agree. The cost to rehabilitate the "conquered" sections of the Ukraine will be huge. What's more the area is largely populated by Russian speaking peoples that largely want to be part of the "motherland." So let Russia pay the cost of rebuilding the infrastructure. It would be best for the West to consolidate the still functional parts of Ukraine and help them to be prosperous--REALLY prosperous. Bring the country into the EU and NATO and turn it into a badass anti-Russian stronghold like Poland and the Baltics.
The point of all this isn't to preserve the sanctity of the Ukraine but to f**k Russia.
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What's more the area is largely populated by Russian speaking peoples that largely want to be part of the "motherland."
That was my general understanding as well until the invasion and I did my homework about Ukraine.
First I quickly learned that the vast majority of Russian speaking Ukrainians do not have an affinity for the Russian motherland. Rather they see themselves as citizens of a sovereign Ukraine inhabiting an area which was formerly a free zone, known as the Zaporozhian Host, governed by the Zaporizhian Cossack Hetmanate on the east bank of the Dniepro River.
Secondly, the separatists in the Donbas were a small minority of the Russian speaking population. They were closely associated with the Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich who fled to Moscow during the Maidan uprising in 2013.
Thirdly, the tie between Russia and Ukraine is largely a myth that has been propagated and embellished by Russians starting in the 19th Century and continuing into the present. Ukraine has far greater ties culturally and nationally to Poland, Lithuania and Austria than Russia. The only cultural aspect that has ever linked Kyiv and Moscow is their mutual observance of the Orthodox Liturgy. Beyond that Ukrainians and even the Zaporozhian Host naturally always looked westward in defining its national identity in the territories that have become to be known as Ukraine.
The point of all this isn't to preserve the sanctity of the Ukraine but to f**k Russia.
Putin alone has done a stellar job of doing just that to Russia. I agree though the West has to get over any notions that Russia can be or will be our friend or at all trustworthy as either a partner or player on the international stage. It is becoming more like North Korea as each year passes.
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It's a problem for everyone in the West, but it's really, really a problem for the Europeans. So step up to the plate, folks. You've got a common enemy, so act like it.
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@Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:
Guns or butter. If we support ceding Ukrainian territory, how long until Russia rebuilds and attacks again?
If we agree to this all sanctions must remain in place and Russia be a true pariah in the world.
I agree. Hate to see President Putin "rewarded" in any way.
