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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
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  • MikM Away
    MikM Away
    Mik
    wrote on last edited by Mik
    #1971

    Good article, if not cheery. I think the major point is decisive victory is unlikely for either nation, but Russia's economy is so much smaller than the West's. The question is Ukrainian manpower. Weapons are important but you have to preserve the people to operate them.

    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

    George KG RenaudaR 2 Replies Last reply
    • MikM Mik

      Good article, if not cheery. I think the major point is decisive victory is unlikely for either nation, but Russia's economy is so much smaller than the West's. The question is Ukrainian manpower. Weapons are important but you have to preserve the people to operate them.

      George KG Offline
      George KG Offline
      George K
      wrote on last edited by
      #1972

      @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

      The question is Ukrainian manpower

      Indeed. I've seen reports that Russia has sustained >300K casualties. Considering the size of their military, that's not crippling (except, perhaps, in public opinion).

      Ukraine can't bear that kind of loss, and Russia will continue to throw troops into the grinder.

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • MikM Mik

        Good article, if not cheery. I think the major point is decisive victory is unlikely for either nation, but Russia's economy is so much smaller than the West's. The question is Ukrainian manpower. Weapons are important but you have to preserve the people to operate them.

        RenaudaR Offline
        RenaudaR Offline
        Renauda
        wrote on last edited by
        #1973

        @Mik

        This morning in a Zoom scrum between friends and former colleagues, we parsed through Freedman’s report. One of our number with considerably more experience in these matters than I, expressed his concern that he senses a growing risk of fraying in team Kyiv as to what and how to adjust strategy while at the same time maintaining the necessary messaging to manage expectations on multiple fronts and levels.

        I suspect his concern is well founded.

        Elbows up!

        1 Reply Last reply
        • MikM Away
          MikM Away
          Mik
          wrote on last edited by
          #1974

          It's a lot to maintain that fighting spirit as the Russian onslaught, incompetent though it may be, continues to wear them down.

          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

          1 Reply Last reply
          • MikM Away
            MikM Away
            Mik
            wrote on last edited by
            #1975

            Speaking of Russian competence...

            https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-troops-are-being-blown-up-by-their-own-minefields-because-their-leaders-won-t-say-where-they-are-ukraine-says/ar-AA1kMvEt?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d3301936c16f4c89be763761bf1b15fa&ei=115

            “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

            1 Reply Last reply
            • George KG Offline
              George KG Offline
              George K
              wrote on last edited by
              #1976

              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • RenaudaR Offline
                RenaudaR Offline
                Renauda
                wrote on last edited by
                #1977

                Yesterday T. E. Lawrence just smiled, today it’s sardonic laughter:

                https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67593041

                Elbows up!

                1 Reply Last reply
                • MikM Away
                  MikM Away
                  Mik
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #1978

                  Smart. Ukraine cannot kill enough Russians to stop the war, but an ill-equipped army can't accomplish much of anything except get itself killed.

                  “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • RenaudaR Offline
                    RenaudaR Offline
                    Renauda
                    wrote on last edited by Renauda
                    #1979

                    More meat for the grinder….

                    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67592803

                    And somehow NATO is to blame.

                    Elbows up!

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • George KG Offline
                      George KG Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #1980

                      https://www.statista.com/statistics/1334454/russian-armed-forces-personnel/

                      Screenshot 2023-12-01 at 5.13.37 PM.png

                      Even if the Ukrainian claim of 300K casualties is inflated by a factor of two, it's still a big hit.

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • W Offline
                        W Offline
                        Wim
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #1981

                        A diplomatic failure for Russia:

                        https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/12/02/ukraine-outmaneuvers-russia-at-osce-in-chemical-weapons-maritime-agencies/

                        RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                        • MikM Away
                          MikM Away
                          Mik
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #1982

                          It would appear Russia does not fear isolation.

                          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • W Wim

                            A diplomatic failure for Russia:

                            https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/12/02/ukraine-outmaneuvers-russia-at-osce-in-chemical-weapons-maritime-agencies/

                            RenaudaR Offline
                            RenaudaR Offline
                            Renauda
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #1983

                            @Wim
                            The losses are significant from the Kremlin’s point of view in that it surely feels it has a right to entitlement to have a voting representative on both agencies’ governing bodies.

                            Big diplomatic win for Ukraine, EU and NATO.

                            Elbows up!

                            W 1 Reply Last reply
                            • RenaudaR Renauda

                              @Wim
                              The losses are significant from the Kremlin’s point of view in that it surely feels it has a right to entitlement to have a voting representative on both agencies’ governing bodies.

                              Big diplomatic win for Ukraine, EU and NATO.

                              W Offline
                              W Offline
                              Wim
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #1984

                              @Renauda I suppose Lavrov felt pretty uneasy. Who else is to be blamed for this debacle?

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • MikM Away
                                MikM Away
                                Mik
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #1985

                                Here's what might help Putin out of office. Not sure where he's getting the cash for this expansion.

                                https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-orders-russian-armed-forces-personnel-increase-of-170-000/ar-AA1kTUtQ?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=138bcec0f1bd4d798538c5f270b2d1c3&ei=17

                                “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • JollyJ Offline
                                  JollyJ Offline
                                  Jolly
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #1986

                                  The average age of a Ukraine soldier is in the forties. Putin is playing a war of attrition, using bodies instead of equipment.

                                  Biden straddled the fence too long. Not the right equipment, not enough equipment, too many restrictions on use.

                                  Almost as if he was fighting a proxy war, trying to simply bleed the Russians.

                                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • W Offline
                                    W Offline
                                    Wim
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #1987

                                    Speaking of attrition:
                                    https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/12/03/frontline-report-russian-soldiers-refuse-to-attack-dnipro-islands-as-ukrainians-maintain-bridgehead-across-the-river/

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • W Offline
                                      W Offline
                                      Wim
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #1988

                                      Another diplomatic failure for Russia:

                                      https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/12/08/armenia-azerbaijan-breakthrough-signals-end-of-russias-south-caucasus-influence/

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • RenaudaR Offline
                                        RenaudaR Offline
                                        Renauda
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #1989

                                        We’ll see how long it takes for the Kremlin to withdraw its “peacekeepers” from the area.

                                        Elbows up!

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • jon-nycJ Online
                                          jon-nycJ Online
                                          jon-nyc
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #1990

                                          Only non-witches get due process.

                                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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