The Ukraine war thread

[jon-nyc]

@George-K said in The Ukraine war thread:

@jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:

Patreas' thoughts:

https://themessenger.com/news/petraeus-ukraine-counteroffensive-likely-to-set-russians-back

"Virtually no chance for Russian "victory"."

That's a pretty bold statement.

Unless Donald J Churchill or one of his ilk takes over. Patreas qualified it to say it was contingent on continued western support.

[Jolly]

Ah, you're beginning to doubt.

Good.

Trump said something at the townhall the other night about the first mission being to stop the killing. To me, that's an armistice.

Right now, depending on territory, that might be doable.

[jon-nyc]

@Jolly I’m beginning to doubt that the party of Reagan isn’t going to actively assist in rebuilding the Russian Empire.

Please prove me wrong.

[Renauda]

@jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:

@Jolly I’m beginning to doubt that the party of Reagan isn’t going to actively assist in rebuilding the Russian Empire.

Please prove me wrong.

Your doubts are genuine, I share the same concern. I think the scenario Vindman describes here is not in the least far fetched:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65613939

[Doctor Phibes]

@jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:

@Jolly I’m beginning to doubt that the party of Reagan isn’t going to actively assist in rebuilding the Russian Empire.

Please prove me wrong.

I don't understand why Trump, Carlson etc. would act like this. Apart from being morally repugnant it makes no sense at all.

[Mik]

I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

The 1930's are supposed to be a warning, not a guide.

[Mik]

Putin doesn't have the economic base to recreate German aggression in the 30's and 40's, but smacking this invasion down hard will make future adventures less likely, especially if the west hangs together.

[Jolly]

@Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

[Aqua Letifer]

@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

@Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

If they don't, though, is it worth watching it from afar because we shouldn't have been the ones to do the legwork?

[Aqua Letifer]

@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ukraine war thread:

@Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

The 1930's are supposed to be a warning, not a guide.

You mean how everyone sat on their ass and let Ukraine Poland be whatever until things got weird in France and oh hey, maybe we should do something about this?

[Jolly]

@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ukraine war thread:

@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

@Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

If they don't, though, is it worth watching it from afar because we shouldn't have been the ones to do the legwork?

That's a really good question ad one where I think there are good people on both sides of the issue.

[Aqua Letifer]

@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ukraine war thread:

@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

@Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

If they don't, though, is it worth watching it from afar because we shouldn't have been the ones to do the legwork?

That's a really good question ad one where I think there are good people on both sides of the issue.

I think the last century taught us that it's better to get involved in situations that can potentially affect everyone as soon as possible, rather than wait for the problem to get worse.

But that's as far as I'm willing to go with having an opinion. I'm not even close to an international politics or military expert.

[Jolly]

As I see it...

1. USA
2. North America
3. Tie. South America/Europe
4. Australia
5. South Pacific, including Japan, the Phillipines and South Korea.
6. Everything else.

And past #3, I'll bend like Gumby.

I have an open mind.

[Aqua Letifer]

@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

As I see it...

1. USA
2. North America
3. Tie. South America/Europe
4. Australia
5. South Pacific, including Japan, the Phillipines and South Korea.
6. Everything else.

And past #3, I'll bend like Gumby.

I have an open mind.

I think a lot of people would argue that Russia's machinations have a direct and material impact on numbers 1-3.

[Wim]

@Aqua-Letifer You're a little bit wrong. Depending on what Russia will/won't achieve, China will adapt its strategies to what the USA will/won't do.

[Aqua Letifer]

@Wim said in The Ukraine war thread:

@Aqua-Letifer You're a little bit wrong. Depending on what Russia will/won't achieve, China will adapt its strategies to what the USA will/won't do.

Well, there's that, too.

[Jolly]

@Wim said in The Ukraine war thread:

@Aqua-Letifer You're a little bit wrong. Depending on what Russia will/won't achieve, China will adapt its strategies to what the USA will/won't do.

Starting to wonder about China. The Belt and Road looks like it needs suspenders...

[Mik]

I think China's plans are somewhat based on an assumption that the US is a power in decline. I think they are wrong in that. Our innate ability to right our own ship is something they lack.

[Renauda]

@Mik

What you refer to as innate ability, is the fact that the US has very robust institutions of democratic governance that have been built up and improved upon over time. Such is not the case for Russia and China.