The Ukraine war thread
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A bad day for the Russian Air Force.
The Russian Air Force appears to have had one of its worst days of the war in more than a year on Saturday. While details remain limited and are likely to change, it appears Russia lost two Mi-8 Hip helicopters, a Su-34 Fullback strike fighter, and a Su-35 Flanker-E, with no survivors. What makes all this especially troubling for the Russian Air Force, is that all these losses happened in its own country, in areas not too far from the border with Ukraine.
All four aircraft came down in Bryansk Oblast, well within Russian territory opposite northeast Ukraine’s Chernihiv Oblast. Video shows one of the Mi-8s breaking up after what looks as if a missile hits it near the town of Klintsy, about 50 kilometers north of the Ukrainian border.
Some are saying friendly fire.
So, there you go.
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Wagner Chief Denies Offering Russian Troop Positions to Ukraine
The founder of Russia’s Wagner mercenary group Yevgeny Prigozhin called reports that he offered information on Russian troop positions to Ukraine "laughable" and a result of a possible smear campaign.
The Washington Post reported earlier Monday that Prigozhin had offered to reveal Russian troop positions to Ukrainian military intelligence in exchange for Kyiv’s withdrawal from Bakhmut.
Wagner's fighters have been at the forefront of Russia's monthslong effort to capture the embattled eastern Ukrainian city of Bakhmut, whose value is more symbolic than strategic.
Prigozhin laughed off The Washington Post's report in an audio message posted on Telegram.
"Reading this is of course nice. It means I am not only fighting for Russia but Zelensky is also fulfilling my orders," Prigozhin said.
"This is laughable."
He said "people from Rublyovka" — a luxurious Moscow suburb home to the Russian elite — could be behind the allegations.
"Of course they will pour as much s*** on me as they can," he said.
The Washington Post report, based on classified Pentagon documents leaked on the gaming platform Discord, said Prigozhin made the offer to Ukraine’s military intelligence directorate, GUR, in late January amid intelligence indicating high losses and low morale among Wagner troops.
The Pentagon leak did not specify which Russian troop positions Prigozhin had offered to pass on.
Kyiv was said to have rejected Prigozhin’s proposals due to a lack of trust in his intentions. The Washington Post cited an unnamed U.S. official as saying Washington shared Kyiv’s doubts.
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Russian replacements for Wagner troops are bolting.
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@jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:
Patreas' thoughts:
https://themessenger.com/news/petraeus-ukraine-counteroffensive-likely-to-set-russians-back
"Virtually no chance for Russian "victory"."
That's a pretty bold statement.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:
Patreas' thoughts:
https://themessenger.com/news/petraeus-ukraine-counteroffensive-likely-to-set-russians-back
"Virtually no chance for Russian "victory"."
That's a pretty bold statement.
@George-K said in The Ukraine war thread:
@jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:
Patreas' thoughts:
https://themessenger.com/news/petraeus-ukraine-counteroffensive-likely-to-set-russians-back
"Virtually no chance for Russian "victory"."
That's a pretty bold statement.
Unless Donald J Churchill or one of his ilk takes over. Patreas qualified it to say it was contingent on continued western support.
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Ah, you're beginning to doubt.
Good.
Trump said something at the townhall the other night about the first mission being to stop the killing. To me, that's an armistice.
Right now, depending on territory, that might be doable.
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Ah, you're beginning to doubt.
Good.
Trump said something at the townhall the other night about the first mission being to stop the killing. To me, that's an armistice.
Right now, depending on territory, that might be doable.
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@Jolly I’m beginning to doubt that the party of Reagan isn’t going to actively assist in rebuilding the Russian Empire.
Please prove me wrong.
@jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Jolly I’m beginning to doubt that the party of Reagan isn’t going to actively assist in rebuilding the Russian Empire.
Please prove me wrong.
Your doubts are genuine, I share the same concern. I think the scenario Vindman describes here is not in the least far fetched:
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@Jolly I’m beginning to doubt that the party of Reagan isn’t going to actively assist in rebuilding the Russian Empire.
Please prove me wrong.
@jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Jolly I’m beginning to doubt that the party of Reagan isn’t going to actively assist in rebuilding the Russian Empire.
Please prove me wrong.
I don't understand why Trump, Carlson etc. would act like this. Apart from being morally repugnant it makes no sense at all.
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I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.
“I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill
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@Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:
I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.
The 1930's are supposed to be a warning, not a guide.
I was only joking
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@Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:
I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.
I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.
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@Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:
I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.
I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.
@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:
I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.
I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.
If they don't, though, is it worth watching it from afar because we shouldn't have been the ones to do the legwork?
Please love yourself.
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@Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:
I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.
The 1930's are supposed to be a warning, not a guide.
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:
I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.
The 1930's are supposed to be a warning, not a guide.
You mean how everyone sat on their ass and let
UkrainePoland be whatever until things got weird in France and oh hey, maybe we should do something about this? -
@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:
I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.
I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.
If they don't, though, is it worth watching it from afar because we shouldn't have been the ones to do the legwork?
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:
I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.
I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.
If they don't, though, is it worth watching it from afar because we shouldn't have been the ones to do the legwork?
That's a really good question ad one where I think there are good people on both sides of the issue.
