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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

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  • RenaudaR Renauda

    @Aqua-Letifer

    Option B is not an option for either Ukraine or future European security. Any consideration of an outcome that would result in a neutral Ukrainian rump state is long past. Besides in the Kremlin playbook, neutrality is meaningless and in the case of Ukraine, the term only confirms that in Moscow’s mind, Ukraine has no right to exist in the first place.

    Aqua LetiferA Offline
    Aqua LetiferA Offline
    Aqua Letifer
    wrote on last edited by
    #1638

    @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

    @Aqua-Letifer

    Option B is not an option for either Ukraine or future European security. Any consideration of an outcome that would result in a neutral Ukrainian rump state is long past. Besides in the Kremlin playbook, neutrality is meaningless and in the case of Ukraine, the term only confirms that in Moscow’s mind, Ukraine has no right to exist in the first place.

    Right. What I was trying to say was, Option A appears to be a more definitive loss for Russia. Option B would create a lot more uncertainty, so because the outcome would be more ambiguous, hey, might mean Russia could win some, who knows. Wouldn't that be preferable in Putin's mind over certain draw/defeat?

    Please love yourself.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • George KG Offline
      George KG Offline
      George K
      wrote on last edited by
      #1639

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • MikM Away
        MikM Away
        Mik
        wrote on last edited by
        #1640

        That can't be good.

        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

        1 Reply Last reply
        • RenaudaR Offline
          RenaudaR Offline
          Renauda
          wrote on last edited by
          #1641

          Not at all.

          Elbows up!

          1 Reply Last reply
          • George KG Offline
            George KG Offline
            George K
            wrote on last edited by
            #1642

            A bad day for the Russian Air Force.


            The Russian Air Force appears to have had one of its worst days of the war in more than a year on Saturday. While details remain limited and are likely to change, it appears Russia lost two Mi-8 Hip helicopters, a Su-34 Fullback strike fighter, and a Su-35 Flanker-E, with no survivors. What makes all this especially troubling for the Russian Air Force, is that all these losses happened in its own country, in areas not too far from the border with Ukraine.

            All four aircraft came down in Bryansk Oblast, well within Russian territory opposite northeast Ukraine’s Chernihiv Oblast. Video shows one of the Mi-8s breaking up after what looks as if a missile hits it near the town of Klintsy, about 50 kilometers north of the Ukrainian border.


            Some are saying friendly fire.

            So, there you go.

            image.jpeg

            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • George KG Offline
              George KG Offline
              George K
              wrote on last edited by
              #1643

              Wagner Chief Denies Offering Russian Troop Positions to Ukraine


              The founder of Russia’s Wagner mercenary group Yevgeny Prigozhin called reports that he offered information on Russian troop positions to Ukraine "laughable" and a result of a possible smear campaign.

              The Washington Post reported earlier Monday that Prigozhin had offered to reveal Russian troop positions to Ukrainian military intelligence in exchange for Kyiv’s withdrawal from Bakhmut.

              Wagner's fighters have been at the forefront of Russia's monthslong effort to capture the embattled eastern Ukrainian city of Bakhmut, whose value is more symbolic than strategic.

              Prigozhin laughed off The Washington Post's report in an audio message posted on Telegram.

              "Reading this is of course nice. It means I am not only fighting for Russia but Zelensky is also fulfilling my orders," Prigozhin said.

              "This is laughable."

              He said "people from Rublyovka" — a luxurious Moscow suburb home to the Russian elite — could be behind the allegations.

              "Of course they will pour as much s*** on me as they can," he said.

              The Washington Post report, based on classified Pentagon documents leaked on the gaming platform Discord, said Prigozhin made the offer to Ukraine’s military intelligence directorate, GUR, in late January amid intelligence indicating high losses and low morale among Wagner troops.

              The Pentagon leak did not specify which Russian troop positions Prigozhin had offered to pass on.

              Kyiv was said to have rejected Prigozhin’s proposals due to a lack of trust in his intentions. The Washington Post cited an unnamed U.S. official as saying Washington shared Kyiv’s doubts.

              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on last edited by
                #1644

                Patreas' thoughts:

                https://themessenger.com/news/petraeus-ukraine-counteroffensive-likely-to-set-russians-back

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                • MikM Away
                  MikM Away
                  Mik
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #1645

                  Russian replacements for Wagner troops are bolting.

                  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-troops-taking-over-from-wagner-in-bakhmut-are-abandoning-their-positions-ukrainian-officer-claims-as-soon-as-they-are-afraid-they-just-run/ar-AA1bfRD8?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=7bc4a1b15eca447fa1aff61c6f9aac95&ei=10

                  “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                    Patreas' thoughts:

                    https://themessenger.com/news/petraeus-ukraine-counteroffensive-likely-to-set-russians-back

                    George KG Offline
                    George KG Offline
                    George K
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #1646

                    @jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:

                    Patreas' thoughts:

                    https://themessenger.com/news/petraeus-ukraine-counteroffensive-likely-to-set-russians-back

                    "Virtually no chance for Russian "victory"."

                    That's a pretty bold statement.

                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                    jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                    • MikM Away
                      MikM Away
                      Mik
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #1647

                      "The Russians are cumming!"

                      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukrainian-general-accidentally-sparks-internet-frenzy-announcing-destruction-of-russian-supercum-drones/ar-AA1bgnv7?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=32d95c551c044ae6a51b7842e97370b2&ei=32

                      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • George KG George K

                        @jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:

                        Patreas' thoughts:

                        https://themessenger.com/news/petraeus-ukraine-counteroffensive-likely-to-set-russians-back

                        "Virtually no chance for Russian "victory"."

                        That's a pretty bold statement.

                        jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #1648

                        @George-K said in The Ukraine war thread:

                        @jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:

                        Patreas' thoughts:

                        https://themessenger.com/news/petraeus-ukraine-counteroffensive-likely-to-set-russians-back

                        "Virtually no chance for Russian "victory"."

                        That's a pretty bold statement.

                        Unless Donald J Churchill or one of his ilk takes over. Patreas qualified it to say it was contingent on continued western support.

                        Only non-witches get due process.

                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • JollyJ Offline
                          JollyJ Offline
                          Jolly
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #1649

                          Ah, you're beginning to doubt.

                          Good.

                          Trump said something at the townhall the other night about the first mission being to stop the killing. To me, that's an armistice.

                          Right now, depending on territory, that might be doable.

                          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                          jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                          • JollyJ Jolly

                            Ah, you're beginning to doubt.

                            Good.

                            Trump said something at the townhall the other night about the first mission being to stop the killing. To me, that's an armistice.

                            Right now, depending on territory, that might be doable.

                            jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nyc
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #1650

                            @Jolly I’m beginning to doubt that the party of Reagan isn’t going to actively assist in rebuilding the Russian Empire.

                            Please prove me wrong.

                            Only non-witches get due process.

                            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                            RenaudaR Doctor PhibesD 2 Replies Last reply
                            • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                              @Jolly I’m beginning to doubt that the party of Reagan isn’t going to actively assist in rebuilding the Russian Empire.

                              Please prove me wrong.

                              RenaudaR Offline
                              RenaudaR Offline
                              Renauda
                              wrote on last edited by Renauda
                              #1651

                              @jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:

                              @Jolly I’m beginning to doubt that the party of Reagan isn’t going to actively assist in rebuilding the Russian Empire.

                              Please prove me wrong.

                              Your doubts are genuine, I share the same concern. I think the scenario Vindman describes here is not in the least far fetched:

                              https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65613939

                              Elbows up!

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                @Jolly I’m beginning to doubt that the party of Reagan isn’t going to actively assist in rebuilding the Russian Empire.

                                Please prove me wrong.

                                Doctor PhibesD Online
                                Doctor PhibesD Online
                                Doctor Phibes
                                wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
                                #1652

                                @jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                @Jolly I’m beginning to doubt that the party of Reagan isn’t going to actively assist in rebuilding the Russian Empire.

                                Please prove me wrong.

                                I don't understand why Trump, Carlson etc. would act like this. Apart from being morally repugnant it makes no sense at all.

                                I was only joking

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • MikM Away
                                  MikM Away
                                  Mik
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #1653

                                  I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

                                  “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                  Doctor PhibesD JollyJ 2 Replies Last reply
                                  • MikM Mik

                                    I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

                                    Doctor PhibesD Online
                                    Doctor PhibesD Online
                                    Doctor Phibes
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #1654

                                    @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                    I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

                                    The 1930's are supposed to be a warning, not a guide.

                                    I was only joking

                                    Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • MikM Away
                                      MikM Away
                                      Mik
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #1655

                                      Putin doesn't have the economic base to recreate German aggression in the 30's and 40's, but smacking this invasion down hard will make future adventures less likely, especially if the west hangs together.

                                      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • MikM Mik

                                        I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

                                        JollyJ Offline
                                        JollyJ Offline
                                        Jolly
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #1656

                                        @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                        I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

                                        I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

                                        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                        Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • JollyJ Jolly

                                          @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                          I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

                                          I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

                                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                          Aqua Letifer
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #1657

                                          @Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                          @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                          I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

                                          I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

                                          If they don't, though, is it worth watching it from afar because we shouldn't have been the ones to do the legwork?

                                          Please love yourself.

                                          JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
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