Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse

The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
2.8k Posts 28 Posters 290.0k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • MikM Mik

    Is the Wagner group on their way out?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/kremlin-leaders-fear-wagner-group-founder-putin-ally-says/ar-AA17nr3L?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=03d3151dedce480782197488837841de

    RenaudaR Offline
    RenaudaR Offline
    Renauda
    wrote on last edited by
    #1379

    @Mik

    Not sure but from what I have been hearing and reading since the new year, Prigozhin’s fiefdom is not as secure as it was this time last year.

    Elbows up!

    1 Reply Last reply
    • MikM Offline
      MikM Offline
      Mik
      wrote on last edited by
      #1380

      Quickest way out is to be a threat to the tsar.

      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

      1 Reply Last reply
      • RenaudaR Offline
        RenaudaR Offline
        Renauda
        wrote on last edited by
        #1381

        This Tsar though is discovering he has feet of clay and other’s know it as well.

        Elbows up!

        1 Reply Last reply
        • George KG Offline
          George KG Offline
          George K
          wrote on last edited by
          #1382

          Long article - some highlights (paywall)

          Putin's Next War

          He had reached that moment in life when a man abandons himself to his demons or to his genius, following a mysterious law which bids him either to destroy or outdo himself.”
          — Marguerite Yourcenar, Memoirs of Hadrian
          Stuck in a war he can neither win nor walk away from, Vladimir Putin is in a bad place. It can only get worse. His options are narrowing quickly: no longer low- and high-risk but between very dangerous and more perilous still. The proverbial desperate times may call for desperate measures. The West should anticipate them, no matter how unlikely or even absurd they may seem.

          Mired in the longest economic stagnation in modern Russian history for most of the decade before the war, the economy is projected to shrink this year and next. In the long run, it is headed for at best an anemic performance. As very little of quality is made in Russia, the sanctions on high-technology items are slowly but inexorably degrading entire industries. Machine-building, car-making, and aviation are atrophying the fastest. Labor shortages have deepened as some of Russia’s best educated, most skilled, and entrepreneurial citizens were among the hundreds of thousands, perhaps close to a million, men and women who fled the country immediately after the invasion of Ukraine.
          Just as the cost of war grows fast and is projected to consume about a quarter of next year’s state budget, income from energy exports, which account for at least half of the government revenues, is bound to shrink: Russian natural gas and oil are no longer expensive enough to make up for the volumes decreased by the EU and G-7 sanctions. (At an equivalent of $417 billion, Russia’s budget last year was about one-sixth of Apple’s market capitalization.)

          Yet the war’s greatest damage is in tarnished symbols and discredited official mythology. When early in his third presidential term, 2012–18, Putin began to shift the foundation of his support — and thus his regime’s legitimacy — from economic progress and the growth of incomes to militarized patriotism, he reinvented himself as a wartime president, the unyielding and victorious defender of Russia against the perennially plotting West. He became Vladimir the Vanquisher, like Russia’s patron saint, George the Victorious on the country’s coat of arms, spearing the NATO dragon writhing under the hoofs of his steed.

          Like Saddam Hussein, who invaded Kuwait to make up for the eight-year stalemated war with Iran and for the lost lives of an estimated quarter-million Iraqi soldiers, Putin could hope to rekindle the patriotic euphoria that followed Crimea’s “return to the motherland” and to obscure the bloody slog of the Ukraine campaign with a swift military triumph.
          Putin would not lack targets among Russia’s neighbors.
          He could teach a lesson in deference to Moldova and Georgia, both of which are flirting with the EU. Then there are the Kazakhs, who, Putin averred, never had their own state until the fall of the Soviet Union. He almost certainly had in mind Kazakhstan’s six northern provinces, where most of the country’s 3.5 million ethnic Russians live, when he blamed former Soviet republics for exiting the Soviet Union and “dragging” with them vast areas of historically Russian lands, “presents from the Russian people.”

          A few years back, RAND war-gamers assessed that Russian troops could be in Riga or Tallinn in 36 to 60 hours after the beginning of hostilities. Deepened by the devastation visited on Russia’s armies in Ukraine, the enormous qualitative and quantitative gap between Russia’s and NATO’s militaries would render such an operation moot. A conventional war of any significant length would suicidal for Moscow. But Putin will not be looking for such a war. Instead, he is likely to opt for a smash-and-grab occupation of narrow slivers of land with large ethnic Russia populations, the better to claim their “liberation” and then “reunification with the motherland.”
          In Estonia, the target would likely be Idu-Viru county, where three-quarters of the inhabitants are ethically Russian and its largest city, Narva, on the Estonian–Russian border, is 80 percent Russian. Alternatively, in Latvia, Moscow’s target would be the Latgale province, which is one-third Russian and whose capital, Daugavpils, is almost half Russian.
          Of course, even a very limited aggression against a NATO country is irrationally risky in conventional military-strategic terms. But we know that Putin is no longer “rational” in the common sense of the word. If he were, he would not have invaded Ukraine.
          A different kind of “rationality” takes over. A triumph of hope over experience, as Samuel Johnson famously said of ill-fated endeavors. Or, to recall the title of Leni Riefenstahl’s paean to Nazism, “a triumph of will” — of determination over reality. “Possunt quia posse videntur,” Vergil wrote. They can because they think they can.

          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • RenaudaR Offline
            RenaudaR Offline
            Renauda
            wrote on last edited by
            #1383

            Good essay however it is contingent on whether Putin’s regime can survive the cost of it’s current war.

            Elbows up!

            George KG 1 Reply Last reply
            • RenaudaR Renauda

              Good essay however it is contingent on whether Putin’s regime can survive the cost of it’s current war.

              George KG Offline
              George KG Offline
              George K
              wrote on last edited by
              #1384

              @Renauda do Russians care about "cost" if victory is assured promised?

              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

              RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
              • George KG George K

                @Renauda do Russians care about "cost" if victory is assured promised?

                RenaudaR Offline
                RenaudaR Offline
                Renauda
                wrote on last edited by Renauda
                #1385

                @George-K

                Let’s find out.

                Edit: I guess I ought to have included the link:

                https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/opinion-researcher-lev-gudkov-russians-have-little-compassion-for-the-ukrainians-a-066c08c6-60f4-48e1-853a-d2b3d67bd6b8

                Elbows up!

                1 Reply Last reply
                • RenaudaR Offline
                  RenaudaR Offline
                  Renauda
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #1386

                  So the story goes……

                  https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/02/13/how-russias-fsb-embraced-religion-in-the-face-of-a-baffling-war-a80211

                  Elbows up!

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • George KG Offline
                    George KG Offline
                    George K
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #1387

                    If true...wow.

                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • MikM Offline
                      MikM Offline
                      Mik
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #1388

                      Weapons are one thing. Ukraine needs to be very stingy with its troops. Russia has a far greater supply, although I doubt they can equip them properly for long.

                      The west needs to keep it up as long as it takes.

                      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • RenaudaR Offline
                        RenaudaR Offline
                        Renauda
                        wrote on last edited by Renauda
                        #1389

                        From what I have been reading and hearing out there as of late is the Russians are moving large numbers of strike aircraft and ground support helicopters closer to the Ukrainian border. I think we can expect to see the Russians attempting much more integrated offensive in the coming days or weeks.

                        Regardless, I have my doubts whether the Russian command structure can accommodate an integrated and combined forces strike without turning into a train wreck.

                        One thing for certain, it will get right nasty again.

                        Elbows up!

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • MikM Offline
                          MikM Offline
                          Mik
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #1390

                          Operational competence does seem hard to believe, given recent performance.

                          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • MikM Offline
                            MikM Offline
                            Mik
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #1391

                            Another one bites the dust. Dropping like flies.

                            https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-s-top-defence-official-dies-after-160ft-balcony-fall-in-latest-mystery-death/ar-AA17zPS7?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=20f2ed0051b34f5ca2dccfc96206e34d

                            “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                            RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                            • MikM Mik

                              Another one bites the dust. Dropping like flies.

                              https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-s-top-defence-official-dies-after-160ft-balcony-fall-in-latest-mystery-death/ar-AA17zPS7?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=20f2ed0051b34f5ca2dccfc96206e34d

                              RenaudaR Offline
                              RenaudaR Offline
                              Renauda
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #1392

                              @Mik

                              George already got that one in his Life Insurance thread. Check it out.

                              Elbows up!

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • MikM Offline
                                MikM Offline
                                Mik
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #1393

                                I was trying to remember what that thread was. Figured he had, but a little redundancy never hurt anyone.

                                “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • RenaudaR Offline
                                  RenaudaR Offline
                                  Renauda
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #1394

                                  Putin’s version of residential schools for Ukrainian children:

                                  https://www.rferl.org/amp/ukraine-russia-children-reeducation/32272143.html

                                  Elbows up!

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • George KG Offline
                                    George KG Offline
                                    George K
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #1395

                                    Michael Korfman on the Russian winter offensive. Long thread.

                                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • George KG Offline
                                      George KG Offline
                                      George K
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #1396

                                      Apparently SecState Blinken's comments about the possibility of China supplying lethal aid to Russia in the Ukraine war led to some displeasure on the part of the Chinese.

                                      "It would be a 'red line' he said."

                                      Devil's advocate here, how is China supplying lethal aid to Russia fundamentally different from what the US and other NATO nations are doing?

                                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                      RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • George KG George K

                                        Apparently SecState Blinken's comments about the possibility of China supplying lethal aid to Russia in the Ukraine war led to some displeasure on the part of the Chinese.

                                        "It would be a 'red line' he said."

                                        Devil's advocate here, how is China supplying lethal aid to Russia fundamentally different from what the US and other NATO nations are doing?

                                        RenaudaR Offline
                                        RenaudaR Offline
                                        Renauda
                                        wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                        #1397

                                        @George-K

                                        Good question. For us in the decadent West, Russia is the aggressor and must be stopped in Ukraine.

                                        China, on the other hand, while fully supporting Ukrainian sovereignty, its right to self determination and the inviolability of its borders, cannot help but see that its own Marxist-Leninist ideology demands that it support Russia, the true victim of US imperialist ambitions and birthplace of the first proletarian state.

                                        That and the fact that it’s a great opportunity to sell arms and munitions and further mortgage Russia under its benign, peace loving proletarian and progressive embrace.

                                        Hope that helps.

                                        Elbows up!

                                        George KG JollyJ 2 Replies Last reply
                                        • RenaudaR Renauda

                                          @George-K

                                          Good question. For us in the decadent West, Russia is the aggressor and must be stopped in Ukraine.

                                          China, on the other hand, while fully supporting Ukrainian sovereignty, its right to self determination and the inviolability of its borders, cannot help but see that its own Marxist-Leninist ideology demands that it support Russia, the true victim of US imperialist ambitions and birthplace of the first proletarian state.

                                          That and the fact that it’s a great opportunity to sell arms and munitions and further mortgage Russia under its benign, peace loving proletarian and progressive embrace.

                                          Hope that helps.

                                          George KG Offline
                                          George KG Offline
                                          George K
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #1398

                                          @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                          great opportunity to sell arms and munitions and further mortgage Russia

                                          I think someone (was it you, Renauda?) who commented that the Chinese look at this as a way of asserting dominance over Russia - not only politically, but also financially.

                                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                          RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Tags
                                          • Popular
                                          • Users
                                          • Groups