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The New Coffee Room

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  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

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  • MikM Offline
    MikM Offline
    Mik
    wrote on last edited by
    #1370

    Great piece, clarity amid the fog of war.

    Unfortunately a negotiated end ceding Ukrainian territory just kicks the can down the road.

    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

    1 Reply Last reply
    • George KG Offline
      George KG Offline
      George K
      wrote on last edited by
      #1371

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • MikM Offline
        MikM Offline
        Mik
        wrote on last edited by
        #1372

        The ignorant posts in that thread are stunning.

        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

        1 Reply Last reply
        • RenaudaR Offline
          RenaudaR Offline
          Renauda
          wrote on last edited by
          #1373

          Putin continues to ramp up the rhetoric at the Stalingrad memorial ceremony:

          https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/02/02/putin-sends-warning-to-west-on-80th-anniversary-of-battle-of-stalingrad-a80128

          Elbows up!

          1 Reply Last reply
          • George KG Offline
            George KG Offline
            George K
            wrote on last edited by
            #1374

            Russia’s Casualties in Ukraine Near 200,000

            Close to 200,000 Russian troops have been killed or wounded in the war in Ukraine, according to estimates from U.S. and European officials, a toll that is likely to continue to rise as the Kremlin readies a fresh offensive in the coming weeks.

            The U.S. military, which keeps rough estimates on Russian casualties in Ukraine, puts the figure for wounded and dead at roughly 180,000, though officials stressed such figures aren’t precise, a U.S. defense official said.

            The tally matched assessments by Norway’s defense chief Gen. Eirik Kristoffersen, who said last week that the number of Russian soldiers killed or injured was approaching 180,000. Mr. Kristoffersen estimated that 100,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed or wounded, in line with an estimate Pentagon officials put out in November.

            The casualty count comes as Moscow’s forces press an eastern offensive in an effort to seize the advantage on the battlefield before tanks pledged by Kyiv’s allies begin to arrive in Ukraine and as the conflict approaches its one-year mark on Feb. 24.

            The Kremlin and Ministry of Defense didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment on the Western casualty assessments.

            In September, Russia’s Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, said 5,937 Russian military personnel had been killed in the conflict in Ukraine. That was only the second time Russian authorities had released any official casualty count. That figure hasn’t been updated since.

            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • AxtremusA Offline
              AxtremusA Offline
              Axtremus
              wrote on last edited by
              #1375

              SpaceX bars Kyiv from using Starlink tech for drone control
              https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64579267

              SpaceX says it provided its technology for humanitarian use, does not want its technology "weaponized," using it for communications is OK but not for offensive purposes.

              RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
              • AxtremusA Axtremus

                SpaceX bars Kyiv from using Starlink tech for drone control
                https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64579267

                SpaceX says it provided its technology for humanitarian use, does not want its technology "weaponized," using it for communications is OK but not for offensive purposes.

                RenaudaR Offline
                RenaudaR Offline
                Renauda
                wrote on last edited by Renauda
                #1376

                @Axtremus

                ….does not want its technology "weaponized," using it for communications is OK but not for offensive purposes..

                I guess SpaceX BOD and management didn’t get the memo that the Kremlin is about to launch a a massive offensive with the objective of annihilating the Ukrainian army, the total destructionof Ukraine’s civilian infrastructure and, the subjugation the Ukrainian nation under the jackboot of Putinism and great Russian chauvinism.

                Elbows up!

                1 Reply Last reply
                • MikM Offline
                  MikM Offline
                  Mik
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #1377

                  How do they distinguish the use?

                  “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • MikM Offline
                    MikM Offline
                    Mik
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #1378

                    Is the Wagner group on their way out?

                    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/kremlin-leaders-fear-wagner-group-founder-putin-ally-says/ar-AA17nr3L?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=03d3151dedce480782197488837841de

                    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                    RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                    • MikM Mik

                      Is the Wagner group on their way out?

                      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/kremlin-leaders-fear-wagner-group-founder-putin-ally-says/ar-AA17nr3L?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=03d3151dedce480782197488837841de

                      RenaudaR Offline
                      RenaudaR Offline
                      Renauda
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #1379

                      @Mik

                      Not sure but from what I have been hearing and reading since the new year, Prigozhin’s fiefdom is not as secure as it was this time last year.

                      Elbows up!

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • MikM Offline
                        MikM Offline
                        Mik
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #1380

                        Quickest way out is to be a threat to the tsar.

                        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • RenaudaR Offline
                          RenaudaR Offline
                          Renauda
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #1381

                          This Tsar though is discovering he has feet of clay and other’s know it as well.

                          Elbows up!

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • George KG Offline
                            George KG Offline
                            George K
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #1382

                            Long article - some highlights (paywall)

                            Putin's Next War

                            He had reached that moment in life when a man abandons himself to his demons or to his genius, following a mysterious law which bids him either to destroy or outdo himself.”
                            — Marguerite Yourcenar, Memoirs of Hadrian
                            Stuck in a war he can neither win nor walk away from, Vladimir Putin is in a bad place. It can only get worse. His options are narrowing quickly: no longer low- and high-risk but between very dangerous and more perilous still. The proverbial desperate times may call for desperate measures. The West should anticipate them, no matter how unlikely or even absurd they may seem.

                            Mired in the longest economic stagnation in modern Russian history for most of the decade before the war, the economy is projected to shrink this year and next. In the long run, it is headed for at best an anemic performance. As very little of quality is made in Russia, the sanctions on high-technology items are slowly but inexorably degrading entire industries. Machine-building, car-making, and aviation are atrophying the fastest. Labor shortages have deepened as some of Russia’s best educated, most skilled, and entrepreneurial citizens were among the hundreds of thousands, perhaps close to a million, men and women who fled the country immediately after the invasion of Ukraine.
                            Just as the cost of war grows fast and is projected to consume about a quarter of next year’s state budget, income from energy exports, which account for at least half of the government revenues, is bound to shrink: Russian natural gas and oil are no longer expensive enough to make up for the volumes decreased by the EU and G-7 sanctions. (At an equivalent of $417 billion, Russia’s budget last year was about one-sixth of Apple’s market capitalization.)

                            Yet the war’s greatest damage is in tarnished symbols and discredited official mythology. When early in his third presidential term, 2012–18, Putin began to shift the foundation of his support — and thus his regime’s legitimacy — from economic progress and the growth of incomes to militarized patriotism, he reinvented himself as a wartime president, the unyielding and victorious defender of Russia against the perennially plotting West. He became Vladimir the Vanquisher, like Russia’s patron saint, George the Victorious on the country’s coat of arms, spearing the NATO dragon writhing under the hoofs of his steed.

                            Like Saddam Hussein, who invaded Kuwait to make up for the eight-year stalemated war with Iran and for the lost lives of an estimated quarter-million Iraqi soldiers, Putin could hope to rekindle the patriotic euphoria that followed Crimea’s “return to the motherland” and to obscure the bloody slog of the Ukraine campaign with a swift military triumph.
                            Putin would not lack targets among Russia’s neighbors.
                            He could teach a lesson in deference to Moldova and Georgia, both of which are flirting with the EU. Then there are the Kazakhs, who, Putin averred, never had their own state until the fall of the Soviet Union. He almost certainly had in mind Kazakhstan’s six northern provinces, where most of the country’s 3.5 million ethnic Russians live, when he blamed former Soviet republics for exiting the Soviet Union and “dragging” with them vast areas of historically Russian lands, “presents from the Russian people.”

                            A few years back, RAND war-gamers assessed that Russian troops could be in Riga or Tallinn in 36 to 60 hours after the beginning of hostilities. Deepened by the devastation visited on Russia’s armies in Ukraine, the enormous qualitative and quantitative gap between Russia’s and NATO’s militaries would render such an operation moot. A conventional war of any significant length would suicidal for Moscow. But Putin will not be looking for such a war. Instead, he is likely to opt for a smash-and-grab occupation of narrow slivers of land with large ethnic Russia populations, the better to claim their “liberation” and then “reunification with the motherland.”
                            In Estonia, the target would likely be Idu-Viru county, where three-quarters of the inhabitants are ethically Russian and its largest city, Narva, on the Estonian–Russian border, is 80 percent Russian. Alternatively, in Latvia, Moscow’s target would be the Latgale province, which is one-third Russian and whose capital, Daugavpils, is almost half Russian.
                            Of course, even a very limited aggression against a NATO country is irrationally risky in conventional military-strategic terms. But we know that Putin is no longer “rational” in the common sense of the word. If he were, he would not have invaded Ukraine.
                            A different kind of “rationality” takes over. A triumph of hope over experience, as Samuel Johnson famously said of ill-fated endeavors. Or, to recall the title of Leni Riefenstahl’s paean to Nazism, “a triumph of will” — of determination over reality. “Possunt quia posse videntur,” Vergil wrote. They can because they think they can.

                            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • RenaudaR Offline
                              RenaudaR Offline
                              Renauda
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #1383

                              Good essay however it is contingent on whether Putin’s regime can survive the cost of it’s current war.

                              Elbows up!

                              George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                              • RenaudaR Renauda

                                Good essay however it is contingent on whether Putin’s regime can survive the cost of it’s current war.

                                George KG Offline
                                George KG Offline
                                George K
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #1384

                                @Renauda do Russians care about "cost" if victory is assured promised?

                                "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                                • George KG George K

                                  @Renauda do Russians care about "cost" if victory is assured promised?

                                  RenaudaR Offline
                                  RenaudaR Offline
                                  Renauda
                                  wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                  #1385

                                  @George-K

                                  Let’s find out.

                                  Edit: I guess I ought to have included the link:

                                  https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/opinion-researcher-lev-gudkov-russians-have-little-compassion-for-the-ukrainians-a-066c08c6-60f4-48e1-853a-d2b3d67bd6b8

                                  Elbows up!

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • RenaudaR Offline
                                    RenaudaR Offline
                                    Renauda
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #1386

                                    So the story goes……

                                    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/02/13/how-russias-fsb-embraced-religion-in-the-face-of-a-baffling-war-a80211

                                    Elbows up!

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • George KG Offline
                                      George KG Offline
                                      George K
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #1387

                                      If true...wow.

                                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • MikM Offline
                                        MikM Offline
                                        Mik
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #1388

                                        Weapons are one thing. Ukraine needs to be very stingy with its troops. Russia has a far greater supply, although I doubt they can equip them properly for long.

                                        The west needs to keep it up as long as it takes.

                                        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • RenaudaR Offline
                                          RenaudaR Offline
                                          Renauda
                                          wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                          #1389

                                          From what I have been reading and hearing out there as of late is the Russians are moving large numbers of strike aircraft and ground support helicopters closer to the Ukrainian border. I think we can expect to see the Russians attempting much more integrated offensive in the coming days or weeks.

                                          Regardless, I have my doubts whether the Russian command structure can accommodate an integrated and combined forces strike without turning into a train wreck.

                                          One thing for certain, it will get right nasty again.

                                          Elbows up!

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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