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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
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  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

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  • RenaudaR Renauda

    Good essay however it is contingent on whether Putin’s regime can survive the cost of it’s current war.

    George KG Offline
    George KG Offline
    George K
    wrote on last edited by
    #1384

    @Renauda do Russians care about "cost" if victory is assured promised?

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
    • George KG George K

      @Renauda do Russians care about "cost" if victory is assured promised?

      RenaudaR Offline
      RenaudaR Offline
      Renauda
      wrote on last edited by Renauda
      #1385

      @George-K

      Let’s find out.

      Edit: I guess I ought to have included the link:

      https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/opinion-researcher-lev-gudkov-russians-have-little-compassion-for-the-ukrainians-a-066c08c6-60f4-48e1-853a-d2b3d67bd6b8

      Elbows up!

      1 Reply Last reply
      • RenaudaR Offline
        RenaudaR Offline
        Renauda
        wrote on last edited by
        #1386

        So the story goes……

        https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/02/13/how-russias-fsb-embraced-religion-in-the-face-of-a-baffling-war-a80211

        Elbows up!

        1 Reply Last reply
        • George KG Offline
          George KG Offline
          George K
          wrote on last edited by
          #1387

          If true...wow.

          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • MikM Offline
            MikM Offline
            Mik
            wrote on last edited by
            #1388

            Weapons are one thing. Ukraine needs to be very stingy with its troops. Russia has a far greater supply, although I doubt they can equip them properly for long.

            The west needs to keep it up as long as it takes.

            “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

            1 Reply Last reply
            • RenaudaR Offline
              RenaudaR Offline
              Renauda
              wrote on last edited by Renauda
              #1389

              From what I have been reading and hearing out there as of late is the Russians are moving large numbers of strike aircraft and ground support helicopters closer to the Ukrainian border. I think we can expect to see the Russians attempting much more integrated offensive in the coming days or weeks.

              Regardless, I have my doubts whether the Russian command structure can accommodate an integrated and combined forces strike without turning into a train wreck.

              One thing for certain, it will get right nasty again.

              Elbows up!

              1 Reply Last reply
              • MikM Offline
                MikM Offline
                Mik
                wrote on last edited by
                #1390

                Operational competence does seem hard to believe, given recent performance.

                “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                1 Reply Last reply
                • MikM Offline
                  MikM Offline
                  Mik
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #1391

                  Another one bites the dust. Dropping like flies.

                  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-s-top-defence-official-dies-after-160ft-balcony-fall-in-latest-mystery-death/ar-AA17zPS7?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=20f2ed0051b34f5ca2dccfc96206e34d

                  “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                  RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                  • MikM Mik

                    Another one bites the dust. Dropping like flies.

                    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-s-top-defence-official-dies-after-160ft-balcony-fall-in-latest-mystery-death/ar-AA17zPS7?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=20f2ed0051b34f5ca2dccfc96206e34d

                    RenaudaR Offline
                    RenaudaR Offline
                    Renauda
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #1392

                    @Mik

                    George already got that one in his Life Insurance thread. Check it out.

                    Elbows up!

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • MikM Offline
                      MikM Offline
                      Mik
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #1393

                      I was trying to remember what that thread was. Figured he had, but a little redundancy never hurt anyone.

                      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • RenaudaR Offline
                        RenaudaR Offline
                        Renauda
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #1394

                        Putin’s version of residential schools for Ukrainian children:

                        https://www.rferl.org/amp/ukraine-russia-children-reeducation/32272143.html

                        Elbows up!

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • George KG Offline
                          George KG Offline
                          George K
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #1395

                          Michael Korfman on the Russian winter offensive. Long thread.

                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • George KG Offline
                            George KG Offline
                            George K
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #1396

                            Apparently SecState Blinken's comments about the possibility of China supplying lethal aid to Russia in the Ukraine war led to some displeasure on the part of the Chinese.

                            "It would be a 'red line' he said."

                            Devil's advocate here, how is China supplying lethal aid to Russia fundamentally different from what the US and other NATO nations are doing?

                            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                            RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                            • George KG George K

                              Apparently SecState Blinken's comments about the possibility of China supplying lethal aid to Russia in the Ukraine war led to some displeasure on the part of the Chinese.

                              "It would be a 'red line' he said."

                              Devil's advocate here, how is China supplying lethal aid to Russia fundamentally different from what the US and other NATO nations are doing?

                              RenaudaR Offline
                              RenaudaR Offline
                              Renauda
                              wrote on last edited by Renauda
                              #1397

                              @George-K

                              Good question. For us in the decadent West, Russia is the aggressor and must be stopped in Ukraine.

                              China, on the other hand, while fully supporting Ukrainian sovereignty, its right to self determination and the inviolability of its borders, cannot help but see that its own Marxist-Leninist ideology demands that it support Russia, the true victim of US imperialist ambitions and birthplace of the first proletarian state.

                              That and the fact that it’s a great opportunity to sell arms and munitions and further mortgage Russia under its benign, peace loving proletarian and progressive embrace.

                              Hope that helps.

                              Elbows up!

                              George KG JollyJ 2 Replies Last reply
                              • RenaudaR Renauda

                                @George-K

                                Good question. For us in the decadent West, Russia is the aggressor and must be stopped in Ukraine.

                                China, on the other hand, while fully supporting Ukrainian sovereignty, its right to self determination and the inviolability of its borders, cannot help but see that its own Marxist-Leninist ideology demands that it support Russia, the true victim of US imperialist ambitions and birthplace of the first proletarian state.

                                That and the fact that it’s a great opportunity to sell arms and munitions and further mortgage Russia under its benign, peace loving proletarian and progressive embrace.

                                Hope that helps.

                                George KG Offline
                                George KG Offline
                                George K
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #1398

                                @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                great opportunity to sell arms and munitions and further mortgage Russia

                                I think someone (was it you, Renauda?) who commented that the Chinese look at this as a way of asserting dominance over Russia - not only politically, but also financially.

                                "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                                • George KG George K

                                  @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                  great opportunity to sell arms and munitions and further mortgage Russia

                                  I think someone (was it you, Renauda?) who commented that the Chinese look at this as a way of asserting dominance over Russia - not only politically, but also financially.

                                  RenaudaR Offline
                                  RenaudaR Offline
                                  Renauda
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #1399

                                  @George-K

                                  Yes it was me. Xi already owns Putin.

                                  Elbows up!

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • George KG Offline
                                    George KG Offline
                                    George K
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #1400

                                    @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                    The politics of this are, for lack of a better word, fascinating. The politics go far, far beyond the simple act of one country invading another. So many players, so many implications.

                                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                    RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • George KG George K

                                      @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                      The politics of this are, for lack of a better word, fascinating. The politics go far, far beyond the simple act of one country invading another. So many players, so many implications.

                                      RenaudaR Offline
                                      RenaudaR Offline
                                      Renauda
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #1401

                                      @George-K said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                      @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                      The politics of this are, for lack of a better word, fascinating. The politics go far, far beyond the simple act of one country invading another. So many players, so many implications.

                                      Indeed. A good reason to take the analyses of TV and podcast talking heads worth a grain of salt.

                                      Elbows up!

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • MikM Offline
                                        MikM Offline
                                        Mik
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #1402

                                        The implications are far ranging. There has never, to my knowledge, been a war that was so nearly universally condemned globally and the victim so thoroughly supported economically and militarily. It’s a blueprint for increased stability IF Ukraine is victorious, and a sure harbinger of further bloodshed if not.

                                        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                        RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • MikM Mik

                                          The implications are far ranging. There has never, to my knowledge, been a war that was so nearly universally condemned globally and the victim so thoroughly supported economically and militarily. It’s a blueprint for increased stability IF Ukraine is victorious, and a sure harbinger of further bloodshed if not.

                                          RenaudaR Offline
                                          RenaudaR Offline
                                          Renauda
                                          wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                          #1403

                                          @Mik

                                          I think you will find that the between 1941 to 1945 US Lend-Lease aid transfers to the USSR in war materiel, industrial equipment, technology transfer and intellectual property would amount to over $1 trillion in today’s currency. Moreover, I do not think that number includes the humanitarian aid such as food, clothing and medical supplies that were also sent to Moscow. In the end everything was given with no strings attached unlike the repayable loans under Lend Lease made to Britain. The USSR’s debts under Lend Lease were written off in 1951. Britain on the hand, paid its wartime debts in full, with interest, until 2006.

                                          If you get the inclination, I recommend you have a look at Sean McKeen’s Stalin’s War that came out in 2021. A real eye opener on how Lend Lease was really allocated and the extent to which Stalin was every bit an aggressive initiator of the war in Europe as was Hitler.

                                          Today Ukraine is receiving nothing near what Stalin received at the expense of other fighting allies like Britain and nationalist China during WWII.

                                          .

                                          Elbows up!

                                          A MikM 2 Replies Last reply
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