They are subjects and they like it that way.
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Hunter's opinion...
It’s shocking to me that some people are surprised by how the situation with the Freedom Convoy went down. It was never going to end well, the odds of them winning were as long as a summer day for a very simple reason: Canada is not the United States.
That may seem obvious, and in the easiest way, it is. But in the way that matters most, it’s probably not that clear.
We have a tendency to think things that simply are not true, like the Iraqi people yearned to be free and democratic when in reality they simply wanted Saddam dead so they could return to settling ancient tribal scores. They had no idea what “freedom” meant, and the concept of individual liberty never occurred to them. It went over like introducing Sharia Law to San Francisco would.
One thing to notice about the coverage of the Canadian Freedom Convoy is how the American media, particularly from conservative outlets, didn’t reflect the will of Canadians. You’d think Justin Trudeau going full totalitarian, turning into a little Fidel Castro (like father, like son – look it up), would bring about a collapse in his popularity, but it hasn’t. Most Canadians were upset he didn’t act sooner.
Canada is not like the United States. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms grants Canadians various rights that, if you don’t think about it, are similar in a lot of ways to the rights we enjoy here. But there’s a major difference.
Our Constitution grants exactly zero rights to anyone, it acknowledges the rights with which we were born and denies the federal government the ability to infringe upon them. The Canadian Charter gives citizens certain rights, explicitly. If a government can grant rights, there is no justification for them not being able to take them away, temporarily or permanently.
When Trudeau invoked emergency powers, US conservatives recoiled in horror. Canadians did not.
I grew up in Detroit, just across the river from Windsor, Ontario. We had channel 9, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, and were able to watch local and national news, as well as the Olympics, through the eyes of Canadians. They are very nationalistic, loyal to the country. The concept of individual liberty we take for granted is as “Canadian” as it is native to Democrats here. They simply aren’t interested.
It’s easy to look at Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, etc., and think they’re just like us because we have so much in common. We speak the same language, enjoy many of the same movies and much of the same music – who doesn’t like Hugh Jackman?
But there’s significantly more we do not share than we do. First and foremost, among them is our commitment to individual liberty.
Yes, some people share those values in those countries, but their culture is completely different. The Canadian truckers, as righteous as their cause was, were never going to win because the politicians they were opposing had the loyalty of the public because the public was used to obeying in the first place.
We don’t obey in this country. At least, we don’t all obey in this country. And we have our Constitution to back us up. The Constitution can’t be “set aside” like the Charter in Canada, unless, of course, Democrats had enough justices on the Supreme Court (thank God they do not).
Watching police roll over actual peaceful protesters, arresting as many as they can get their hands on for the crime of upsetting the state would lead to more people taking to the streets in this country, whereas in those countries listed above it led to nothing.
It’s not just Canada, Australia has seen violent police actions against people protesting lockdowns peacefully. Black Lives Matter/ANTIFA deliberately inflicted billions in economic and property damage around the US and the world while beating holy hell out of those who objected, killing dozens and trying to murder hundreds more, all of which is on videotape, and the leaders of these countries joined them for photo-ops. There were no crackdowns against literal violence, just as Hitler never criticized the Brownshirts, while they were useful. Eventually, movements like BLM/ANTIFA outlive their usefulness, but they haven’t yet for the left.
But the fight for individual freedom has no place on the left; it will never be useful, so it must be destroyed. Hearing US pundits try to lecture or appeal to Canadian authorities is kind of funny. They don’t care. You’re American. Are you going to do something differently because some mouthy jackass from Edmonton is displeased with you? No, you aren’t. Why would the reverse be looked at differently?
They know this, of course, it’s all for show; it’s to look tough and principled to a domestic audience. Canada was going to do, and will always do what they want. It’s fine, it’s their country. It’s what they vote for and tolerate. If Trudeau were really unpopular, Parliament would hold a vote of no confidence and force a new election. There isn’t even talk of that. They don’t have to wait 4 years to rid themselves of a leader, they could do it in a few weeks. That they haven’t even tried tells you something.
There is no place in the world like the United States, where you are born with your rights and the government is prevented from infringing upon them. Lots of places seem like us, but they aren’t. In those countries, for example, you can face jail time for speech, for saying things that upset people who seem to make their living finding new and creative ways to get upset. While Democrats would like nothing more than to bring that level of control here, they can’t. Our Constitution wouldn’t allow it and our people wouldn’t stand for it. The professional pearl-clutching class of aspiring victims don’t have the power they so desperately desire here, they just have to settle for getting CNN and MSNBC contracts.
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Most Canadians were upset he didn’t act sooner.
No most were angry at the City of Ottawa and the Government of Ontario when neither would take actions to disperse the protesters. At the same time we were upset with the federal government’s failure to initiate any coordinated effort with the lower levels of government. Instead the Feds chose to politicise the protest along partisan lines. Actually, a lot like how US politicians respond to civil unrest and issues.
Canada is not like the United States.
Give the man a cigar - preferably a genuine Cuban. Awareness is always the first step.
….Canadians. They are very nationalistic, loyal to the country. The concept of individual liberty we take for granted is as “Canadian” as it is native to Democrats here. They simply aren’t interested.
I would agree in that we do not frame our daily life or existence around “liberty” or at least as Americans understand and articulate the concept. But he is correct, Americans are patriotic while Canadians in contrast are nationalistic and loyal to the country or, as in the case of Quebec, loyal to the country in so far as its Francophone identity is recognised as a distinct nation in itself.
The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms grants Canadians various rights that, if you don’t think about it, are similar in a lot of ways to the rights we enjoy here. But there’s a major difference.
Our Constitution grants exactly zero rights to anyone, it acknowledges the rights with which we were born and denies the federal government the ability to infringe upon them. The Canadian Charter gives citizens certain rights, explicitly.
Not an inaccurate observation. Supports my efforts yesterday to bring attention to Section One.
If a government can grant rights, there is no justification for them not being able to take them away, temporarily or permanently.
Again, see Section One of the Charter and the “notwithstanding clause” in Section 33. https://www.constitutionalstudies.ca/2019/07/notwithstanding-clause/
When Trudeau invoked emergency powers, US conservatives recoiled in horror. Canadians did not..
Overall correct but all the same, a sweeping generalisation.
Invocation of the Act came only after 1) the Government of Ontario requesting the Federal Government to intervene directly in bringing the occupation of Ottawa to and an end and secure all land border crossings into the USA located in Ontario and; 2) subsequent consultation and agreement with the Provinces. Of the ten provinces, four dissented - Quebec, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta - considering it to be an impingement on provincial authority. At the same time however all recognized that it was the only constitutional tool in the box that would enable the Federal Government to facilitate the federal assistance for intervention as requested by Ontario. Thus when announced last Monday, the PM was very careful to spell out that application of the Act would be targeted and geographically specific.
So while it is true that majority of Canadians do support invocation of the Act at this time and for the reasons stated, there are many caveats and cautions upon the Federal Government limiting its exercise.
Canadians did not recoil in horror to the Act because it is understood that its invocation was only constitutional ways and means instrument, albeit a blunt one, to activate the powers of the Federal Government to address this protest. Still there is plenty of debate over the invocation and support and dissension is not always along partisan lines. As well there are already court challenges.
Now that downtown Ottawa has been cleared of the protesters, we can begin the process of completion, assessment and introspection.
Unfortunately however, it will result in the intense partisan division and vitriol that divides family, friends and colleagues. Quite similar to
elsewhere on this continent other than the partisanship and vitriol expressed will be in English and French.I trust that this will be interpreted as a reasoned response to the posted article.
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It's worth pointing this out:
Number of people killed by the police in:
US - 28.4 / 10 million
Canada - 9.7 / 10 million
Australia - 1.7 / 10 million
UK - 0.5 / 10 millionI know that shooting alleged criminals isn't the same thing as stopping protests, but it's maybe a little easy to get carried away with this idea that Australia and Canada are despotic police states by comparison with the freedom loving Americans.
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in They are subjects and they like it that way.:
US - 28.4 / 10 million
Canada - 9.7 / 10 million
Australia - 1.7 / 10 million
UK - 0.5 / 10 millionHow many should they have killed?
By country, how many deserved to be killed by the police?
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Freedom is not a binary. Americans cede a lot of personal autonomy to the government.
The degree to which they do is contained in all the laws and regulations of the land.
Small example, I was surprised to find out how much autonomy land developers had in the Canadian suburb of a major metro that I grew up in. My dad made all the design decisions in the houses we grew up (hideous houses). But you can’t do that in any of the places I’ve lived in in the US.
Let’s remember eminent domain exists in the US.
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@xenon said in They are subjects and they like it that way.:
Freedom is not a binary. Americans cede a lot of personal autonomy to the government.
The degree to which they do is contained in all the laws and regulations of the land.
Small example, I was surprised to find out how much autonomy land developers had in the Canadian suburb of a major metro that I grew up in. My dad made all the design decisions in the houses we grew up (hideous houses). But you can’t do that in any of the places I’ve lived in in the US.
Let’s remember eminent domain exists in the US.
No, the author makes a very good point in how Canadians and Americans look at freedom.
I'm past the point of being mildly irritated with the U.S. Federal government and how much freedom has been taken away from our citizens. I'm not to the point of a shooting war, but I think we'll get there sooner rather than later.
As Americans, we are born with our rights. No principality or government can confer those on us. That's why so much if our Constitution and Amendments explain what the government cannot do. As we have aged as a country, it is a natural and destructive nature of man to ascribe more power to government and no government is ever content with the amount of power it has. It's why a wise man once said the Tree of Liberty needs to be watered occasionally with the blood of tyrants.
And as an American, I bemoan the loss of much of our state power to the Federal government. The Founders never meant for us to have such a powerful centralized government. As an old farmer once told me, the Feds ought to defend the shores, deliver the mail and stay the Hell out of people's lives.
As for eminent domain, I understand the concept and have no problem with the concept. The problem comes when the basic concept is abused by government, again, in an usurpation of authority and power that should not have been given to the government.
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Canada is a constitutional monarchy - so all power, on paper, has to come from the sovereign. Even though in practice they have none.
But the guy in the article says something to the effect of, let’s not be surprised when the government decides to go totalitarian in an “emergency” because of that.
Recent U.S. President’s have even pretty quick to make up their own rules because of an “emergency”.
Sure, the origin story Canadians and Americans tell themselves are vastly different - I don’t see that much daylight in how they operate though.
My day to day life has been pretty similar in the US and Canada.
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Canada is a constitutional monarchy - so all power, on paper, has to come from the sovereign. Even though in practice they have none.
More accurately, Canada is a Parliamentary Democracy.
We ceased being a Constitutional Monarchy during the 1920’s in the aftermath of the King Byng Affair.
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/king-byng-affair
The United Kingdom is a Constitutional Monarchy but the former Dominions of the Empire, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, are Parliamentary Democracies that recognise the British monarch and her/his representative as their nominal head of state.
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Yeah, but at least we're ashamed afterwards and often try to make amends.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
Oh, I see the lad is ready to start again.
TNCR rules?
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@Jolly said in They are subjects and they like it that way.:
Oh, I see the lad is ready to start again.
TNCR rules?
Like I said, think again. My point is that feeling ashamed and making amends to aboriginal peoples and Japanese internees and their descendants is not exclusive to the USA.
So you can put your sabre back in its sheath.
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We don’t obey in this country.
How many of you know someone who died needlessly from COVID because of ignorant 'Murrican values?
Fuck this guy. From the morons who invoke their "rights" to eat dewormer paste and get deathly ill instead of get a damn shot to the morons who invoke their "rights" to have safe spaces and get co-workers fired because they consider height a micro-aggression, we don't need any more rights in America. We're children run amok and breaking shit in Pier One because our parents have a soft touch. We need responsibilities, personal and social.
Show me what you're doing to practice responsible citizenship out there in the world. If you are, please double down, because we have a shortage. If all you're doing is demanding your "rights" be honored, shove your exceptionalism and your rights firmly up your ass.
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What do have against Mik's kinfolk ?
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@Aqua-Letifer said in They are subjects and they like it that way.:
We don’t obey in this country.
How many of you know someone who died needlessly from COVID because of ignorant 'Murrican values?
Fuck this guy. From the morons who invoke their "rights" to eat dewormer paste and get deathly ill instead of get a damn shot to the morons who invoke their "rights" to have safe spaces and get co-workers fired because they consider height a micro-aggression, we don't need any more rights in America. We're children run amok and breaking shit in Pier One because our parents have a soft touch. We need responsibilities, personal and social.
Show me what you're doing to practice responsible citizenship out there in the world. If you are, please double down, because we have a shortage. If all you're doing is demanding your "rights" be honored, shove your exceptionalism and your rights firmly up your ass.
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I’ve always felt that way too many Americans focus on “rights” and I have long championed a “Bill of Responsibilities” to temper people’s perceived “rights”.
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Personally? I know4 people that have died from COVID. 3 had Type II Diabetes and all had Vitamin D deficiencies.
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And you’ll agree when you get older… When the shit hits the fan is the moment when you most need to hold to simple and basic ideals and is not when you suspend your ideals for the “common good”.
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Rights that can be rescinded on a Governmental whim aren’t rights.
Love ya, Aqua, but I feel Hunter nailed this.
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@LuFins-Dad said in They are subjects and they like it that way.:
Rights that can be rescinded on a Governmental whim aren’t rights.
Post of the day.
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@LuFins-Dad said in They are subjects and they like it that way.:
@Aqua-Letifer said in They are subjects and they like it that way.:
We don’t obey in this country.
How many of you know someone who died needlessly from COVID because of ignorant 'Murrican values?
Fuck this guy. From the morons who invoke their "rights" to eat dewormer paste and get deathly ill instead of get a damn shot to the morons who invoke their "rights" to have safe spaces and get co-workers fired because they consider height a micro-aggression, we don't need any more rights in America. We're children run amok and breaking shit in Pier One because our parents have a soft touch. We need responsibilities, personal and social.
Show me what you're doing to practice responsible citizenship out there in the world. If you are, please double down, because we have a shortage. If all you're doing is demanding your "rights" be honored, shove your exceptionalism and your rights firmly up your ass.
- I’ve always felt that way too many Americans focus on “rights” and I have long championed a “Bill of Responsibilities” to temper people’s perceived “rights”.
I hear ideas like that from a whole lot of people who only mention it after I bring it up first. Just sayin'.
