They are subjects and they like it that way.
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Most Canadians were upset he didn’t act sooner.
No most were angry at the City of Ottawa and the Government of Ontario when neither would take actions to disperse the protesters. At the same time we were upset with the federal government’s failure to initiate any coordinated effort with the lower levels of government. Instead the Feds chose to politicise the protest along partisan lines. Actually, a lot like how US politicians respond to civil unrest and issues.
Canada is not like the United States.
Give the man a cigar - preferably a genuine Cuban. Awareness is always the first step.
….Canadians. They are very nationalistic, loyal to the country. The concept of individual liberty we take for granted is as “Canadian” as it is native to Democrats here. They simply aren’t interested.
I would agree in that we do not frame our daily life or existence around “liberty” or at least as Americans understand and articulate the concept. But he is correct, Americans are patriotic while Canadians in contrast are nationalistic and loyal to the country or, as in the case of Quebec, loyal to the country in so far as its Francophone identity is recognised as a distinct nation in itself.
The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms grants Canadians various rights that, if you don’t think about it, are similar in a lot of ways to the rights we enjoy here. But there’s a major difference.
Our Constitution grants exactly zero rights to anyone, it acknowledges the rights with which we were born and denies the federal government the ability to infringe upon them. The Canadian Charter gives citizens certain rights, explicitly.
Not an inaccurate observation. Supports my efforts yesterday to bring attention to Section One.
If a government can grant rights, there is no justification for them not being able to take them away, temporarily or permanently.
Again, see Section One of the Charter and the “notwithstanding clause” in Section 33. https://www.constitutionalstudies.ca/2019/07/notwithstanding-clause/
When Trudeau invoked emergency powers, US conservatives recoiled in horror. Canadians did not..
Overall correct but all the same, a sweeping generalisation.
Invocation of the Act came only after 1) the Government of Ontario requesting the Federal Government to intervene directly in bringing the occupation of Ottawa to and an end and secure all land border crossings into the USA located in Ontario and; 2) subsequent consultation and agreement with the Provinces. Of the ten provinces, four dissented - Quebec, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta - considering it to be an impingement on provincial authority. At the same time however all recognized that it was the only constitutional tool in the box that would enable the Federal Government to facilitate the federal assistance for intervention as requested by Ontario. Thus when announced last Monday, the PM was very careful to spell out that application of the Act would be targeted and geographically specific.
So while it is true that majority of Canadians do support invocation of the Act at this time and for the reasons stated, there are many caveats and cautions upon the Federal Government limiting its exercise.
Canadians did not recoil in horror to the Act because it is understood that its invocation was only constitutional ways and means instrument, albeit a blunt one, to activate the powers of the Federal Government to address this protest. Still there is plenty of debate over the invocation and support and dissension is not always along partisan lines. As well there are already court challenges.
Now that downtown Ottawa has been cleared of the protesters, we can begin the process of completion, assessment and introspection.
Unfortunately however, it will result in the intense partisan division and vitriol that divides family, friends and colleagues. Quite similar to
elsewhere on this continent other than the partisanship and vitriol expressed will be in English and French.I trust that this will be interpreted as a reasoned response to the posted article.
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It's worth pointing this out:
Number of people killed by the police in:
US - 28.4 / 10 million
Canada - 9.7 / 10 million
Australia - 1.7 / 10 million
UK - 0.5 / 10 millionI know that shooting alleged criminals isn't the same thing as stopping protests, but it's maybe a little easy to get carried away with this idea that Australia and Canada are despotic police states by comparison with the freedom loving Americans.
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in They are subjects and they like it that way.:
US - 28.4 / 10 million
Canada - 9.7 / 10 million
Australia - 1.7 / 10 million
UK - 0.5 / 10 millionHow many should they have killed?
By country, how many deserved to be killed by the police?
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Freedom is not a binary. Americans cede a lot of personal autonomy to the government.
The degree to which they do is contained in all the laws and regulations of the land.
Small example, I was surprised to find out how much autonomy land developers had in the Canadian suburb of a major metro that I grew up in. My dad made all the design decisions in the houses we grew up (hideous houses). But you can’t do that in any of the places I’ve lived in in the US.
Let’s remember eminent domain exists in the US.
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@xenon said in They are subjects and they like it that way.:
Freedom is not a binary. Americans cede a lot of personal autonomy to the government.
The degree to which they do is contained in all the laws and regulations of the land.
Small example, I was surprised to find out how much autonomy land developers had in the Canadian suburb of a major metro that I grew up in. My dad made all the design decisions in the houses we grew up (hideous houses). But you can’t do that in any of the places I’ve lived in in the US.
Let’s remember eminent domain exists in the US.
No, the author makes a very good point in how Canadians and Americans look at freedom.
I'm past the point of being mildly irritated with the U.S. Federal government and how much freedom has been taken away from our citizens. I'm not to the point of a shooting war, but I think we'll get there sooner rather than later.
As Americans, we are born with our rights. No principality or government can confer those on us. That's why so much if our Constitution and Amendments explain what the government cannot do. As we have aged as a country, it is a natural and destructive nature of man to ascribe more power to government and no government is ever content with the amount of power it has. It's why a wise man once said the Tree of Liberty needs to be watered occasionally with the blood of tyrants.
And as an American, I bemoan the loss of much of our state power to the Federal government. The Founders never meant for us to have such a powerful centralized government. As an old farmer once told me, the Feds ought to defend the shores, deliver the mail and stay the Hell out of people's lives.
As for eminent domain, I understand the concept and have no problem with the concept. The problem comes when the basic concept is abused by government, again, in an usurpation of authority and power that should not have been given to the government.
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Canada is a constitutional monarchy - so all power, on paper, has to come from the sovereign. Even though in practice they have none.
But the guy in the article says something to the effect of, let’s not be surprised when the government decides to go totalitarian in an “emergency” because of that.
Recent U.S. President’s have even pretty quick to make up their own rules because of an “emergency”.
Sure, the origin story Canadians and Americans tell themselves are vastly different - I don’t see that much daylight in how they operate though.
My day to day life has been pretty similar in the US and Canada.
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Canada is a constitutional monarchy - so all power, on paper, has to come from the sovereign. Even though in practice they have none.
More accurately, Canada is a Parliamentary Democracy.
We ceased being a Constitutional Monarchy during the 1920’s in the aftermath of the King Byng Affair.
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/king-byng-affair
The United Kingdom is a Constitutional Monarchy but the former Dominions of the Empire, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, are Parliamentary Democracies that recognise the British monarch and her/his representative as their nominal head of state.
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Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@Jolly said in They are subjects and they like it that way.:
Oh, I see the lad is ready to start again.
TNCR rules?
Like I said, think again. My point is that feeling ashamed and making amends to aboriginal peoples and Japanese internees and their descendants is not exclusive to the USA.
So you can put your sabre back in its sheath.
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We don’t obey in this country.
How many of you know someone who died needlessly from COVID because of ignorant 'Murrican values?
Fuck this guy. From the morons who invoke their "rights" to eat dewormer paste and get deathly ill instead of get a damn shot to the morons who invoke their "rights" to have safe spaces and get co-workers fired because they consider height a micro-aggression, we don't need any more rights in America. We're children run amok and breaking shit in Pier One because our parents have a soft touch. We need responsibilities, personal and social.
Show me what you're doing to practice responsible citizenship out there in the world. If you are, please double down, because we have a shortage. If all you're doing is demanding your "rights" be honored, shove your exceptionalism and your rights firmly up your ass.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in They are subjects and they like it that way.:
We don’t obey in this country.
How many of you know someone who died needlessly from COVID because of ignorant 'Murrican values?
Fuck this guy. From the morons who invoke their "rights" to eat dewormer paste and get deathly ill instead of get a damn shot to the morons who invoke their "rights" to have safe spaces and get co-workers fired because they consider height a micro-aggression, we don't need any more rights in America. We're children run amok and breaking shit in Pier One because our parents have a soft touch. We need responsibilities, personal and social.
Show me what you're doing to practice responsible citizenship out there in the world. If you are, please double down, because we have a shortage. If all you're doing is demanding your "rights" be honored, shove your exceptionalism and your rights firmly up your ass.
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I’ve always felt that way too many Americans focus on “rights” and I have long championed a “Bill of Responsibilities” to temper people’s perceived “rights”.
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Personally? I know4 people that have died from COVID. 3 had Type II Diabetes and all had Vitamin D deficiencies.
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And you’ll agree when you get older… When the shit hits the fan is the moment when you most need to hold to simple and basic ideals and is not when you suspend your ideals for the “common good”.
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Rights that can be rescinded on a Governmental whim aren’t rights.
Love ya, Aqua, but I feel Hunter nailed this.
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@LuFins-Dad said in They are subjects and they like it that way.:
Rights that can be rescinded on a Governmental whim aren’t rights.
Post of the day.
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@LuFins-Dad said in They are subjects and they like it that way.:
@Aqua-Letifer said in They are subjects and they like it that way.:
We don’t obey in this country.
How many of you know someone who died needlessly from COVID because of ignorant 'Murrican values?
Fuck this guy. From the morons who invoke their "rights" to eat dewormer paste and get deathly ill instead of get a damn shot to the morons who invoke their "rights" to have safe spaces and get co-workers fired because they consider height a micro-aggression, we don't need any more rights in America. We're children run amok and breaking shit in Pier One because our parents have a soft touch. We need responsibilities, personal and social.
Show me what you're doing to practice responsible citizenship out there in the world. If you are, please double down, because we have a shortage. If all you're doing is demanding your "rights" be honored, shove your exceptionalism and your rights firmly up your ass.
- I’ve always felt that way too many Americans focus on “rights” and I have long championed a “Bill of Responsibilities” to temper people’s perceived “rights”.
I hear ideas like that from a whole lot of people who only mention it after I bring it up first. Just sayin'.
