Not a riot
-
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 02:03 last edited by
@Mik that’s my biggest frustration with this whole topic. You have to be so sensitive when discussing.
I’m completely open to the possibility that I’m wrong and having my mind changed. But you can’t even question certain axioms.
I had a hilarious convo with a coworker yesterday where we slowly confirmed for a few mins that the other wasn’t overly-woke. Then had a decent convo after.
-
@89th made perfect sense to me.
Another distinction worth considering is how many police officers are killed by African American males vs Caucasian, Hispanic, Asian, etc...
I’m not projecting, I don’t know the answer, but could it be that officers feel more at risk by African Americans and do the numbers support that concern?
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 02:53 last edited by 89th 6 May 2020, 02:54@LuFins-Dad said in Not a riot:
I’m not projecting, I don’t know the answer, but could it be that officers feel more at risk by African Americans and do the numbers support that concern?
So, here are the stats:
- These are "Law Enforcement Officers Feloniously Killed"
- Black line = black people
- Green line = white people
- Most killings were from either a black or white person
- TOP CHART: Raw numbers by year, in most years, white people kill cops more.
- BOTTOM CHART: If you account that black people are 13.1% of the population and white people are 49.7% of the population, proportion to the respective race, in all years black people kill more cops.
In other words, to answer your question, an officer feels more at risk by black citizens as they (proportional to their race) are 2.7x more likely to kill a cop.
I can already hear @Aqua-Letifer fuming over the simplification of these numbers, but I wanted to answer @LuFins-Dad 's question.
-
@LuFins-Dad said in Not a riot:
I’m not projecting, I don’t know the answer, but could it be that officers feel more at risk by African Americans and do the numbers support that concern?
So, here are the stats:
- These are "Law Enforcement Officers Feloniously Killed"
- Black line = black people
- Green line = white people
- Most killings were from either a black or white person
- TOP CHART: Raw numbers by year, in most years, white people kill cops more.
- BOTTOM CHART: If you account that black people are 13.1% of the population and white people are 49.7% of the population, proportion to the respective race, in all years black people kill more cops.
In other words, to answer your question, an officer feels more at risk by black citizens as they (proportional to their race) are 2.7x more likely to kill a cop.
I can already hear @Aqua-Letifer fuming over the simplification of these numbers, but I wanted to answer @LuFins-Dad 's question.
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 03:22 last edited by Aqua Letifer 6 May 2020, 03:24@89th said in Not a riot:
In other words, to answer your question, an officer feels more at risk by black citizens as they (proportional to their race) are 2.7x more likely to kill a cop.
Blacks have killed more cops because a great many of them live in neighborhoods in which more cops are killed, not because melanin levels make you enjoy killing cops 2.7 times as much.
Also, that's historical data, not a future projection. Those numbers don't mean that blacks are 2.7 times more likely to kill a police officer, they mean that police officers have been killed by blacks 2.7 times more often than whites. Those two aren't the same.
-
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 03:24 last edited by
No need to talk about Trump’s wife that way.
-
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 03:26 last edited by
I'd love to hear her take on this actually. That would be better than watching MAS*H.
-
@89th said in Not a riot:
In other words, to answer your question, an officer feels more at risk by black citizens as they (proportional to their race) are 2.7x more likely to kill a cop.
Blacks have killed more cops because a great many of them live in neighborhoods in which more cops are killed, not because melanin levels make you enjoy killing cops 2.7 times as much.
Also, that's historical data, not a future projection. Those numbers don't mean that blacks are 2.7 times more likely to kill a police officer, they mean that police officers have been killed by blacks 2.7 times more often than whites. Those two aren't the same.
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 04:24 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
@89th said in Not a riot:
In other words, to answer your question, an officer feels more at risk by black citizens as they (proportional to their race) are 2.7x more likely to kill a cop.
Blacks have killed more cops because a great many of them live in neighborhoods in which more cops are killed, not because melanin levels make you enjoy killing cops 2.7 times as much.
Also, that's historical data, not a future projection. Those numbers don't mean that blacks are 2.7 times more likely to kill a police officer, they mean that police officers have been killed by blacks 2.7 times more often than whites. Those two aren't the same.
Have facts become useless?
-
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
No fires were set there then, and nothing was thrown at police.
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/uspp/6_2_20_statement_from_acting_chief_monahan.htm
United States Park Police acting Chief Gregory Monahan.
On Monday, June 1, the USPP worked with the United States Secret Service to have temporary fencing installed inside Lafayette Park. At approximately 6:33 pm, violent protestors on H Street NW began throwing projectiles including bricks, frozen water bottles and caustic liquids. The protestors also climbed onto a historic building at the north end of Lafayette Park that was destroyed by arson days prior. Intelligence had revealed calls for violence against the police, and officers found caches of glass bottles, baseball bats and metal poles hidden along the street.
You're saying the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken?
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 10:59 last edited by@George-K said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
No fires were set there then, and nothing was thrown at police.
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/uspp/6_2_20_statement_from_acting_chief_monahan.htm
United States Park Police acting Chief Gregory Monahan.
On Monday, June 1, the USPP worked with the United States Secret Service to have temporary fencing installed inside Lafayette Park. At approximately 6:33 pm, violent protestors on H Street NW began throwing projectiles including bricks, frozen water bottles and caustic liquids. The protestors also climbed onto a historic building at the north end of Lafayette Park that was destroyed by arson days prior. Intelligence had revealed calls for violence against the police, and officers found caches of glass bottles, baseball bats and metal poles hidden along the street.
You're saying the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken?
@George-K , yes, the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken.
The WUSA9 news crew found tear gas canisters on site at the time and documented their findings:
-
@George-K said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
No fires were set there then, and nothing was thrown at police.
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/uspp/6_2_20_statement_from_acting_chief_monahan.htm
United States Park Police acting Chief Gregory Monahan.
On Monday, June 1, the USPP worked with the United States Secret Service to have temporary fencing installed inside Lafayette Park. At approximately 6:33 pm, violent protestors on H Street NW began throwing projectiles including bricks, frozen water bottles and caustic liquids. The protestors also climbed onto a historic building at the north end of Lafayette Park that was destroyed by arson days prior. Intelligence had revealed calls for violence against the police, and officers found caches of glass bottles, baseball bats and metal poles hidden along the street.
You're saying the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken?
@George-K , yes, the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken.
The WUSA9 news crew found tear gas canisters on site at the time and documented their findings:
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 11:27 last edited by@Axtremus said in Not a riot:
@George-K said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
No fires were set there then, and nothing was thrown at police.
You're saying the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken?
@George-K , yes, the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken.
The WUSA9 news crew found tear gas canisters on site at the time and documented their findings:
And so, apparently, is Aqua:
While some agitators threw water bottles at advancing police, one agitator hurled a firework towards officers that fell short and caused panic among retreating protesters.
-
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 11:37 last edited by
-
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 11:55 last edited by
You may have a chance, Ax. I've heard Bathhouse Barry swings both ways...
-
@89th said in Not a riot:
In other words, to answer your question, an officer feels more at risk by black citizens as they (proportional to their race) are 2.7x more likely to kill a cop.
Blacks have killed more cops because a great many of them live in neighborhoods in which more cops are killed, not because melanin levels make you enjoy killing cops 2.7 times as much.
Also, that's historical data, not a future projection. Those numbers don't mean that blacks are 2.7 times more likely to kill a police officer, they mean that police officers have been killed by blacks 2.7 times more often than whites. Those two aren't the same.
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 12:47 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
@89th said in Not a riot:
Those numbers don't mean that blacks are 2.7 times more likely to kill a police officer, they mean that police officers have been killed by blacks 2.7 times more often than whites. Those two aren't the same.
Correct, one is a fact. The other will become a fact if this BLM nonsense continues.
-
@George-K said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
No fires were set there then, and nothing was thrown at police.
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/uspp/6_2_20_statement_from_acting_chief_monahan.htm
United States Park Police acting Chief Gregory Monahan.
On Monday, June 1, the USPP worked with the United States Secret Service to have temporary fencing installed inside Lafayette Park. At approximately 6:33 pm, violent protestors on H Street NW began throwing projectiles including bricks, frozen water bottles and caustic liquids. The protestors also climbed onto a historic building at the north end of Lafayette Park that was destroyed by arson days prior. Intelligence had revealed calls for violence against the police, and officers found caches of glass bottles, baseball bats and metal poles hidden along the street.
You're saying the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken?
@George-K , yes, the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken.
The WUSA9 news crew found tear gas canisters on site at the time and documented their findings:
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 14:49 last edited by@Axtremus said in Not a riot:
@George-K said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
No fires were set there then, and nothing was thrown at police.
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/uspp/6_2_20_statement_from_acting_chief_monahan.htm
United States Park Police acting Chief Gregory Monahan.
On Monday, June 1, the USPP worked with the United States Secret Service to have temporary fencing installed inside Lafayette Park. At approximately 6:33 pm, violent protestors on H Street NW began throwing projectiles including bricks, frozen water bottles and caustic liquids. The protestors also climbed onto a historic building at the north end of Lafayette Park that was destroyed by arson days prior. Intelligence had revealed calls for violence against the police, and officers found caches of glass bottles, baseball bats and metal poles hidden along the street.
You're saying the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken?
@George-K , yes, the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken.
The WUSA9 news crew found tear gas canisters on site at the time and documented their findings:
You truly are an idiot.
-
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 14:51 last edited by
-
@Axtremus said in Not a riot:
@George-K said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
No fires were set there then, and nothing was thrown at police.
You're saying the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken?
@George-K , yes, the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken.
The WUSA9 news crew found tear gas canisters on site at the time and documented their findings:
And so, apparently, is Aqua:
While some agitators threw water bottles at advancing police, one agitator hurled a firework towards officers that fell short and caused panic among retreating protesters.
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 14:52 last edited by@George-K said in Not a riot:
@Axtremus said in Not a riot:
@George-K said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
No fires were set there then, and nothing was thrown at police.
You're saying the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken?
@George-K , yes, the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken.
The WUSA9 news crew found tear gas canisters on site at the time and documented their findings:
And so, apparently, is Aqua:
While some agitators threw water bottles at advancing police, one agitator hurled a firework towards officers that fell short and caused panic among retreating protesters.
Saw the video. Did you?
Firework was thrown after the tear gas and flashbangs started.
-
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 14:55 last edited by
Ax may or may not be an idiot, but there WAS tear gas fired in LaFayette that evening. Like Aqua, I know a few people that were on-site, and not as protestors. They say tear gas was fired, I believe them.
-
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 14:59 last edited by
I posted a video still of the tear gas and we're still debating this. We've approached "I'll see it when I believe it." Protester bad. Whatever.
-
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 15:12 last edited by
More police peacefully dispersing a rabid, violent crowd determined to destroy property:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CA-P9oVnkD-/
-
I posted a video still of the tear gas and we're still debating this. We've approached "I'll see it when I believe it." Protester bad. Whatever.
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 15:16 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
I posted a video still of the tear gas and we're still debating this. We've approached "I'll see it when I believe it." Protester bad. Whatever.
You've bought into a media lie. Those were smoke bomb canisters. Not tear gas.
-
More police peacefully dispersing a rabid, violent crowd determined to destroy property:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CA-P9oVnkD-/
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 15:21 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
More police peacefully dispersing a rabid, violent crowd determined to destroy property:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CA-P9oVnkD-/
According to those who were there, the "peaceful protesters" began to turn violent, police found various items positioned strategically to be used as weapons when the "peaceful protesters" began heading straight for the items like they (say it ain't so!!) Knew right where they were, and the police had to use smoke bombs and pepper balls to disperse the now violent "peaceful protesters".
-
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
I posted a video still of the tear gas and we're still debating this. We've approached "I'll see it when I believe it." Protester bad. Whatever.
You've bought into a media lie. Those were smoke bomb canisters. Not tear gas.
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 16:31 last edited by@Larry said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
I posted a video still of the tear gas and we're still debating this. We've approached "I'll see it when I believe it." Protester bad. Whatever.
You've bought into a media lie. Those were smoke bomb canisters. Not tear gas.
WUSA 9 isn't exactly Mother Jones, or even WaPo, Larry. They are generally pretty much down the middle. They have physical evidence of this. Aqua and I are hardly on the side of Antifa and BLM, but we both know people that we trust that were on-site and said it happened.
On the other hand, we have the Park Police giving an oddly specific statement about the tear gas.